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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:38 pm 
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What I said was, "Saying you "knew you weren't clean" almost sounds like a foregone conclusion." Apparently I should have worded it differently. Presenting it as a foregone conclusion is not the same as presenting it as your opinion. THAT was my point. You are surely welcome to your opinion. Just be clear that it is your opinion and applies to you only, not as fact. That's all I'm trying to say (obviously I said it very poorly). I do apologize if it sounded like I was trying to censor you. But the whole "clean" vs "dirty" IS a debate and that's what we want to avoid: debates.

Try reading this post from Dr. Junig, perhaps he can explain it better than I. http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1837

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:08 pm 
lifesaver wrote:
One more thing. If shes already been abusing opiates no matter the strength, the switch has already been turned on. Her brain has already been developing with opiates. If she is nodding off, she probably isnt taking it under a doctors care or esle she would adjusted to the medication which would take away any negative side effects.


Good point...and your right.. untill she has the desire to get clean....not matter how much we love her. Its up to her. I dont think she is with a md.. no script bottle etc... I can only go by what she says and what I see. I know she has the sub and I know she is nodding out when still. I have no ideal what dose she is taking but gut says no md. What do you think... When I was on it... not opiate naive at all.. I didnt nod out. Only at the very low doses did I feel altered. I have heard reasons why but didnt make sense to me. The one that stands out is that all my receptors were not full and no Nalx. I dont know. But I am so worried about her.

I want to help.. I want to ask what dose, time taken. If its low dose... why the eight mg pills? Trust me.. its a art to get to .5mg with 8mg pills. Not sure what to do. think I should get involved? My thinking is wait till her Dad has everything lined up and he can present her with a plan. She is a bit raw and I just want to leave her alone but Safe.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:48 pm 
hatmaker510 wrote:
What I said was, "Saying you "knew you weren't clean" almost sounds like a foregone conclusion." Apparently I should have worded it differently. Presenting it as a foregone conclusion is not the same as presenting it as your opinion. THAT was my point. You are surely welcome to your opinion. Just be clear that it is your opinion and applies to you only, not as fact. That's all I'm trying to say (obviously I said it very poorly). I do apologize if it sounded like I was trying to censor you. But the whole "clean" vs "dirty" IS a debate and that's what we want to avoid: debates.

Try reading this post from Dr. Junig, perhaps he can explain it better than I. http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1837


Hat... I am a pretty black and white thinking person. So. for me only, when on a opiate I am not opiate free. I am not saying everyone needs to think my way. Not appose to bmt or mmt. I think its a personal choice. If it works for you then It works for you. To tell you the truth, I didnt care what others thought when I was on MMt or bmt. I was doing what I had to do. No debate needed.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 11:57 pm 
Capt:

I definitely think you should try to have some part or say in what happens with her. I mean, you know from experience what shes going through. I know for me, ever since i've found sobriety i feel like its my life mission to help anybody and everybody i can that struggles with this even if its just by telling them my own experience. I think you could really help her in a big way and if she knows your history, then she may take you a lot more serious simply because she knows you have been through it. The only problem i can forsee is, she is still at the age where she isnt able to see the consequences of her choices. She may think like i did and think that nothings ever gonna happen to me(her), and that everything is fine. She may think that what shes doing is just a part of what people her age do. I know i did. She may think she will just grow out of it. Who knows. I just pray that yall can get her on the right treatment plan. Anyways, im just rambling on and on cuz its a bit late. Im usually already asleep lol. Hope everything works out and wish you the best!!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 10:53 am 
Well... last nite or early this am I heard someone up so I got up to see. My niece was up getting something to eat. We sat and chatted. I ask for a urine sample and she gladly gave it. She only showed pos for pot. She told me she has been on 16ng of sub and she is getting them from the street. I share my hole history with her, what worked, what didn't work etc.

She wants to do the iboga Treatment. She said that since I told her about it she has been looking it up. She knows she cant go from sub to iboga and going to talk to her dad. I told her that iboga is not a cure but will give the biggest leg up.. I still felt she needed to go to rehab. She began crying.. agreed to it all. This am she went to her Dad office. I am sitting on pin/needle here. I do worry that my brother is gonna slam her for being on sub. I know he will give her sao to help if someone else hold them for her... I wont. I still protect myself to the tee. He will have too.

I am very excited for her. I think this is the best plan of action for her. She has a tiny habit, no need for sub and that is way to obvious since it makes her nod out. Here on net looking for cheap airfare to the chic that gave me my TX. Seems like it all gonna work out. She has a lot ahead of her and it wont be easy. Sure hate this addiction. I do wish it wasnt so life long. My heart goes out for her. My son got out of bed and sat with us.. at breakfast he ask if I though Iboga would help him stay away for alcohol.... I nearly jump up and kissed him. Lord is good to me today. I ask if I paid for it would he consider going to rehab.. Big NO. This might change ... early yet.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 11:56 am 
Congragulations!! Im glad she agreed to treatment!! I will pray for her success!! Hopefully she is truly ready. One thing that concerns me and i dont know how her dad(who is a doctor right?) isnt concerned, ibogaine is not even an approved treatment in the US. I understand you have went through it an said you were successful but surely their has to be some legitament reasons why the US hasnt approved it. Is it 100% safe? Im just one who is all for following the guidelines even if that means something i dont necessarily agree with. This ibogaine stuff seems scary. I dont doubt your experience and your success with it. Isnt her dad concerned about her doing this treatment since its not a legally approved treatment? Again im glad she wants some help!!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:43 pm 
lifesaver wrote:
Congratulations!! I'm glad she agreed to treatment!! I will pray for her success!! Hopefully she is truly ready. One thing that concerns me and i don't know how her dad(who is a doctor right?) isn't concerned, Ibogaine is not even an approved treatment in the US. I understand you have went through it an said you were successful but surely their has to be some legitament reasons why the US hasn't approved it. Is it 100% safe? I'm just one who is all for following the guidelines even if that means something i don't necessarily agree with. This Ibogaine stuff seems scary. I don't doubt your experience and your success with it. Isn't her dad concerned about her doing this treatment since its not a legally approved treatment? Again I'm glad she wants some help!!


This I am sure I will get some flack on. But you ask. I do think Iboga is totally safe. Our goverment knows all about it. Began testing it and then pull all monies and shut it down. Forced a MD (Dr Nash) from the states out side the country to finish her research. I dont think that anything we put into our bodies is totally 100% safe.. I dont think bupe is 100% safe, meth or even tylonel. Anti depressants are not totally safe. BP meds are not without the negatives, One has to weight out the risk for them selves.

In our country the big pharms give a lot of money to campaigns to run for what ever. They put into office who they want and will put more money in their pockets. Think about it... how much money did I spend maintaining my addiction as apposed to how much money I spend to end my active addiction... If Iboga was legal in this country it would cut in to profits the pharms make. Would shut down many meth clinics and the sub docs..well... they would rather one be on the sub for life and keep that money coming. Like Dr J says... no one can unlearn drug behavior and he is very much for life long sub treatment. I think that is very sad and say very little for the human spirit.

Pharms to ensure they keep making money will make up new dx for a certain drug to keep it from going generic.. being shy now needs a drug. No cure for addiction so one should stay on meth for life or sub for life. I am proof that is not ness. Not just me, many. Not saying that the choice for bmt/mmt is wrong at all. Its a personal choice. So.. Hat, don't come back and say I am bashing sub or want me to clarify my statement. I Will do it now for you. We are all different with different threshold of discomfort we can endure.. What is good for me may not be what you think is good for you... that is find. What ever keeps you safe works for me.

I am not saying that iboga is for everyone.. Not for those who suffer from schizo or with psychotic episodes. If given by a train provider, totally safe. One must have ekg... no prolong q-t intervals. It has help way too many and since my tx I have share with many active addicts and see many win...

SO... My brother thinks it is totally safe. If it wasnt I am sure he would not of even suggested that I do this treatment. Just because our goverment keeps it out of our country... dosnt always mean they are looking out for you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 12:55 pm 
Capt:

Please forgive my memory because i know you've already said what im about to ask. Its just that i dont feel like searching through everything. How long have you been drug free after the ibogaine treatment or i guess im asking how long ago was it that you did the ibogaine? Just curious


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 1:03 pm 
lifesaver wrote:
Capt:

Please forgive my memory because i know you've already said what im about to ask. Its just that i dont feel like searching through everything. How long have you been drug free after the ibogaine treatment or i guess im asking how long ago was it that you did the ibogaine? Just curious


over two yrs. I had the treatment on March 3 rd, 08


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:30 pm 
Thats awesome!! I did some reading on iboga and it really does sound interesting but a bit scary. I guess im just not comfortable with things i dont really understand. But, congragulations with that!! Thats a huge accomplishment!!


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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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