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 Post subject: Apathy anyone???
PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:11 am 
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I have been on suboxone for a while now(2 years) and I fell as if my feelings and desires (when I have any) are muted. I don't enjoy the things I use too at all. I stay in bed for most of the day reading or eating. I have no desire to improve my appearance at all. Getting a hair cut and having my eyebrows done seem like a horrible chore now. Does anyone else feel this way??


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:41 am 
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Hi Roby and welcome to a great forum. We're glad to have you here.
I don't have any issues with apathy aside from my normal, long-term depression. I've been on suboxone for 16 months. In fact I've heard from a lot of people believe Suboxone has anti-depressant properties.
Are there other things going on in your life that could be contributing to what sounds like depression? That said, please know I'm NOT a doctor or medical/mental health professional of any sort. I'm just a concerned fellow recovering addict. Do you have a therapist? I know from personal experience that when a person feels like you're feeling doing things and getting out are the last thing you want to do. But in fact they are the things you should be doing. Think of it as a sort of "fake it till you make it" kind of thing.

I'm sorry I can't be of more help. I'm sure you'll get responses from more people - we are all unique and have different experiences on suboxone.

Again welcome and please keep us posted on how you're doing.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:48 pm 
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I don't have that now, but I have had it in the past and it lasted quite a while. Probably 7 months or longer maybe. I really don't know why it happened, but I thought it was the suboxone. Then I went off the suboxone and realized I still felt that way, only worse. It didn't feel like my typical depression. I have always been depressed and had anxiety. It was something else and hard to describe. I quit working out. I quit doing facials and quit tanning and quit painting my toenails every night. I just was happy laying around.

I just wrote about this on another thread so I won't go all into it here and drive everyone insane. Basically, once I got off the sub and realized it wasn't the suboxone, it was a lot easier to start dealing with it. I am seeing a therapist now which is helping. I am addressing my anxiety. I have made commitments to myself to get off my ass and DO something EVERY weekend. I made goals and wrote them down. I think I am just learning how to live. I spent YEARS living only while high. I didn't really have hobbies. I did certain things when I was high and enjoyed them. But when I wasn't high I didn't really have a life. So for me, and everyone is different, I am finally learning how to do what I am pretty sure the rest of the world has been doing and knows how to do. I am just learning.

I don't know if you and I have had the same experience or not and hopefully someone else will respond who has had a similar experience. I would sure love to hear what they did with it.

Cherie


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:37 pm 
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Hello and welcome....
I think I would have to say I know where you are coming from. When I first went on suboxone I believe I was in deep depression. I had just moved to a new city, gone through a terrible divorce and was 7 hours from my two small boys. I had to doctor shop for a few months before I got contacts to buy 20 Loratab 10's a day...sometimes more. I never left my apartment, kept my blinds closed, scared to answer the phone...I didn't open the mail for month's. I would pay my electricity bill usually the day before disconnect..same with cable.....Thank God I had a job and a supervisor who didn't micro manage me because most times I didn't even leave my house.....I knew something had to happen or I was just going to kill myself. My dealers girlfriend told me one day I should look into suboxone. I had never heard of it so I got on the internet and found this forum. One week later I was on suboxone.

At first it worked well and the cravings stopped but my patterns didn't. I would be so mad on Monday mornings because I again wasted another weekend locked in my apartment just wasting away. After about a month I decided I have to do something......so I started getting up everyday at 6 am and going to work (funny huh...actually doing my job). I started goingto AA meetings every night that I could and breakfast meetings on the weekend. Found a great sponser and started working the steps again. I started to journal about the last 1 1/2 years about my life, the divorce...how I felt. Before I knew it I started opening my mail....the blinds...paying my bills........starting to live. Suboxone helped so much with the cravings and withdrawl and I felt normal but I knew if I went back to my old ways....I would lay around and waste the day.

So for me I think I suffered from severe depression and today I belive (I am now on subutex) not only helps me with the cravings and w/d but with depression as well. I actually contribute to society now and my life has gotten so much better...I have done so well in my job that I am being transferred back to where my boys are. I think the medicine, support, meetings, a sponser and this forum helped motivate me to get up and out of the house. Now I leave home early..and it's usually dark when I get home. I don't want to go back to that dark place again....but I would still be there because I am such a procrastinator........I think the greatest thing ever invented was Tomorrow...I can do anything tomorrow...lol. So today I don't have one foot in the past and one foot in the present....today I live for today. I hope things get better for you.
Talke to us everyday......we will gladly help you.


Jim


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:17 am 
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Roby, how long have you been experiencing these feelings? The whole two years or has it started recently? Also, are you on Suboxone for pain management or for opiate abuse?

If you are on it for opiate abuse then it could just be the effect of the years of abuse and the toll it took on your mind. Abusing opiates changes your brain chemistry forever, subs does not reverse that and nothing ever will. So many things can change how our brain works, from the food we eat, the climate we live in, from our little four legged compadres. My Dad was "normal" for about 35 years of his life till he started feeling what you are, apathy, lethargy, low motivation. His brain just changed on him and he had to go anti-depressants. There is no clear cut reason why, it just happened and thats how it usually does. I know Anti-depressants, just like Suboxone have a stigma surrounding them but maybe you should look into this with your Doctor. We only really use 10% of our brain so god knows what the other 90% is doing.

Another thing you could do is maybe get your thyroid levels checked. I know when I started on my thyroid medication it for sure gave me a little energy boost. Low Energy and Apathy are best friends, believe me.

I would recommend you get with your doctor and do some tests and work out a plan, this doesn't sound like a problem that can be solved on a message board. Apathy/Depression can be managed now a days pretty easily.

Good Luck & Keep us posted!


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:03 am 
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Thanks a lot everyone for all your input. This is great!! I am on suboxone for opiate addiction. (and yes i have felt like this pretty much the whole time Ive been on sub) I abused every kind of pain pill I could find for about 6-7 years. All of this started because I was having marital problems at the time but everything is ok now. I am not depressed or anything, I just am happy as can be just to sit around and do nothing but read. My daughter constantly trys to get me out shopping but I dont want to. I pretty much only do what I have to to get by. My friend is here from out of town so maybe being out with her will help me get more motivated. I think I am going to have to make myself work out again. maybe that will help. Thanks a lot everyone.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 11:35 am 
I have to say that I, too, am in an apathetic phase. When I first got on Sub I felt really well for the first time in a year or more and I think it really helped with my depression issues. Now I'm over the 6 month mark and I've been feeling just like you described. I would love to sit and read all day, and I do only what is required of me, I have no motivation to do anything extra. And this is usually the time of year I DO get motivated - It's really nice out and I'm ready to clean out the house or start a garden or anything. I'm not like that at all now. It tough to just get out of bed some days. My Sub dr. put me on a new antidepressant at my last visit (Lexapro). I had been on Celexa a while back and it helped. I would love to get to a place where I don't need medication, but that just isn't realistic for me right now.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:34 am 
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Well, both of you be sure to get your thyroid levels checked. The symptoms you are describing sound a lot like an thyroid imbalance to me...I would know since I have one myself. Ever since I have started taking the thyroid meds I have had a little more energy and just not felt so..BLAH. I mean, that's how I just felt...Blah.

I hope all goes well for you too.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:48 am 
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Yeah I've already had my thyroid checked a few years ago and it was ok. I actually went out with my friend yesterday and had a good time but by the time I got home I was wiped out!! I should probably state that I was not taking my subs as prescribed when I first started taking them. I always took more. still looking for something more. Its only been the last 4 months that I've been taking them as I'm suppose to. !6 mg in the morning but I do feel that by the time 3 oclock rolls around I'm feeling crappy again. My doc said I could split the does but does not recomend that because he wanted my brain to get use to having just one dose where as before, everytime I had a problem I would just pop more pills. well thanks everyone for all the input. this is really nice having other people to chat with who understand where I'm coming from

Robyn


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:26 pm 
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I guess I'm different but, since I've been on the sub beside the sleepiness, and the irritation that sneaks up about 8 hours after my dose, it goes away. I'm better than I was. Not depressed at all, in fact I've been *more* driven to "doll myself up" I seem to be more relaxed and have better esteem. Sometimes I will cry for some stupid reason, but I believe it is me processing this big change, but its so nice to not be a prisoner to vicodin anymore. :)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 3:12 pm 
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I do feel for you. Before i started to do lots of oxy and dope, i was an avid weightlifter and got into the gym 5-7 days a week without fail. My mind/muscle connection was pretty much unstoppable. Even if i drank the night before, i would lift the next day like my life depended on it. This was back from 2000-2004. After using for a few years, In 2008 i remember the DAY i lost my motivation.My habit finally caught up with me. I was driving to the gym, and a practically uncontrollable urge to use the 40mg tab of oxy i had back in my condo hit me. I turned around, snorted it, and never looked back. That day and terrible feeling of loss still haunts me to this day. Its as if my mind gave in, and accepted the drugs, snuffing out motivation, drive and interest. Apathy up the ass with all aspects of life from then on, accept, of course, for opiates.
In June of 2009 i decided enough was enough, and i have been on suboxone ever since. The problem is, i still cannot get that old fire back, even though i started lifting again for a solid 8 months. My doc keeps telling me my passion will return, but i just feel dull. I think it has nothing to do with your thyroid.... just plain and simple dopamine levels. With low dopamine comes low testosterone, and that is probably what we are experiencing.
I have been on 12mg a day for 31 months now, and i am tapering down this week for the first time. Feels awesome. Things will get better. Your interest will return, as mine is coming back in waves... sometimes they last for a day, sometimes for a second or two, but life and color is returning.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2011 7:42 am 
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ct1762 wrote:
I have been on 12mg a day for 31 months now, and i am tapering down this week for the first time. Feels awesome. Things will get better. Your interest will return, as mine is coming back in waves... sometimes they last for a day, sometimes for a second or two, but life and color is returning.

Good luck!


That was a great post!

It's really quite sobering when I think about how my brain & perspective has changed since my addiction. I spose you could call it damage. I blamed the Subs as well, but at least for me, a lot of that anhedonia / bleakness was there in abstinence as well . So I think it's just the addictive process changing our brain and who we are. It certainly leaves some scarring.

I let this get me down for some time. But the fortunate thing is, now they know that we do grow new neural connections, and our brains do adapt. People DO bounce back from addiction to be happy healthy individuals. It's really important to find some colour in life, because staying in depression can age the brain prematurely, and affects memory & cognition.

If there's nothing you can do to break out of the anhedonia... then see a doctor. But don't underestimate the power within yourself to create a new outlook. Tony Robbins style :lol:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 12:42 pm 
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Hey Roby I completely understand what you are going through as I have the same problem in my life. I have been on Subs for a little over two years and the entire time I have not had one single job as any type of tasks seem daunting to me. Literally, everyday I have to talk myself into getting out of bed and doing something constructive, which I am embarrassed to say, usually does not happen. Now with that being said the only options you have to better the situation are A) getting off suboxone, and B) forcing yourself to do things so that eventually you will be rewarded with the satisfaction of doing right.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:34 pm 
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wow, I just responded to this topic on another post. It really does seem that a lot of us experience this apathy/depression. Interesting to think that it might just be my brain either damaged or trying to right itself from the damage. It is helping me to read that other people experience it too. I moved at the same time I got clean, so I always blame it on moving. As I said in the other post, I dont have friends in this new city. It is depressing, but why can't I get off my butt and do something about it? I only do the most neccessary tasks, getting kids to, from school-practices, I don't even always cook dinner as I sometimes just don't feel like it. ( There is always food for my kids to get for themselves) I just wish I could light a fire under my ass....but then because of my fibromyalgia, On the days I do feel good, I do too much, then feel horrible again. It is a viscious cycle. I don't know how to get more motivation. I am 40. I need to get more out of life, at this age. I just don't know how to get myself to do it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:54 pm 
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sorry roby'. i have been through the ins and outs with this horrible problem for years. and thoght it was the soboxone. but going through other types of depression apathy anxiety it realy is not the subs cousing it.we go through apathy/depression /anxiety witch some times is just part of life. and then we find drugs that then lead us to soboxone,witch is a easy'r drug to get use too and atatched to. well then we become our selfs again and find our problems getting better or worse depending on our mind and brain. i got very sick on soboxone, and let me tell you". it was NOT THE SOBOXONE!! but i blamed it on it any way finding out later that it was a other medication that took me a long time to recover from. whatch out for other meds" they can make you sicker than soboxone ever will! soboxone gives us that strange chain a round are leg feeling becouse we know it won't get us high but has the same stuff in it. and soboxone being a partial opiate it would not make any scense with that other stuff in it to cause these problems at such a horrible rate. plus we all have been taking drugs/med/ long enough to understand this. i hope you find the rite stuff to make you feel a lot better roby?

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