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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:30 pm 
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I got diagnosed last week with Complex Sleep Apnea, and I know lots of ppl have it, but I have both Central AND obstructive. Left untreated this leads directly to Obesity, heart disease and diabetes. The culprit? Suboxone. My Doctor said even if I lost 40 pounds and quit smoking (I know, I know) I would have this. Sleep Doc said the Suboxone is causing ONE of the kinds, and I beleive him because I've never been able to breathe at night since I started it. I CAN'T go off the Suboxone or I'll start looking for pills again. I told my BLEEPING Subox Doc I couldn't breathe, and he declared breathing difficulties"absolutely not be related." I knew he was wrong, and the sleep doc asked me right out of the gate if I was taking Suboxone. FINALLY, someone who agreed with me! I KNEW it was the Suboxone! Sleep Doc sent me home with a machine for 5 nights which showed I need a full ventilator to breathe with. The Sleepdoc reccomended the CPAPtalk.com forum to help me find a better price on the machine I need (I dont have Insurance). That Forum is wonderful, but not a lot about Suboxone & Apnea. Ideally, my Sleep doc and Subox Doc need to be working together, but again my SuboxDoc has a serious God complex and no one can tell him ANYTHING. The few times I have tried he literally starts yelling at me! It's insane, but with no insurance the list of docs I can see/afford is small, and only this guy had a spot open for me to get the Free meds. One of my biggest concerns is this: SuboxDoc is in the "No Ambien" camp, but I am taking it anyway. I just can't sleep without it, and now that I am going to have to wear this mask on my face forever I need to know given my diagnosis, how serious is taking 5mgs of Ambien at night? I take 16mgs of Subox..which has been a miracle for me. I went off the Ambien for the first 3 months of Subox, and never slept. Maybe a few hours from 5-8 am. **Disclaimer Disclaimer**...I understand you all aren't "doctors" and are just giving OPINIONS, but I'd like some anyway.

What I *don't* need are people telling me to get a different SuboxDoc. I would love to, but I can't. Would just really like to hook up with other ppl who have developed breathing problems since starting Suboxone.
Thanks Everybody.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 7:53 pm 
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Hi weedman,

Your post intrigued me because I've never heard of suboxone being related to sleep apnea. So I did a quick Google search.
Here's one link for you: http://sleepdoctor.blogspot.com/2007/10 ... apnea.html

From what I can tell from other sites I read from, it's opiates in general that can be the culprit and not suboxone specifically. I also read that it's the fact that sub depresses the respiratory system that "causes" the sleep apnea. With that said, have you considered lowering your dose? Maybe that will help.

I don't know specifically if Ambien is safe to take with sub, but I know other sleep meds can be taken safely. 5 mg of Ambien - as far as I know (I used to take it) - is a relatively low dose though. BUT, it is my understanding that Ambien also depresses the respiratory system, so isn't it then possible that the Ambien could be contributing to your condition as well? Just a thought.

I take Trazodone/Desyrel for sleep and I know others on this forum take it as well. It's an atypical antidepressant that's commonly used for sleep these days. Will your sub doc try other sleep meds with you?

My husband has sleep apnea and uses a CPAP machine, has for about 7 years now. I'll be honest, it was hard for him to get used to it at first, but eventually he did get accustomed to it.

I'm sorry I can't give you anything more definitive. Please hang in there and let us know how you're doing. Take care.

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 Post subject: Hi Hat!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:15 pm 
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Hi Hat!
Thanks for you reply and suggestions. I do know that it's all about the respritory depressions, and I too asked "Why not Ambien" when they hand out Trazadone and Seroquel left and right, but he just tsrated yelling that "He was the Doctor" and all his other craziness. The sleep Doc is seeing more and more pts with breathing probs due to Subox, and I'm already taking below the reccomended doseage to try and help.

I really do appreciate the links that you said...very helpful! Appreciate your stopping by...Beth


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 11:02 am 
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Location: northcarolina moutains
since switching to subutex i have become a lot less drowsy. i had a terrible car accident april 09 and lucky me or my 2yr old daughter was not killed. after that my doc decided for me to try some ritalin at 10mg 3-4x a day. it has also helped a lot. my workday is from 3:30 a.m. until about 5p.m. the subutex at a low dose along with the ritalin has made me a whole lot more safer.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 6:22 pm 
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Just wondering if you have tapered down and if so have you seen an improvement in the apnea?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:01 pm 
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I've been on sub for four and a half years and this is one of the many side effects I've experienced. I was diagnosed with sleep apnea as well. At the time I was taking 24mg sub and 4mg klonopin a day. Since lowering the dose on both meds 14-16mg sub (currently weaning) and 2-3mg klonopin I've been fine. I used to wake gasping for air. Also, I noticed since I've been on sub I can only fall asleep on my back. If I wake during the night I turn on my side but I can't fall asleep on my stomach like I always preferred (and I'd think would be much safer).


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 27, 2010 11:23 pm 
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2RollingStoned: Thanks for the info. I got an email from the doc on here today stating that lowering the dose may actually make the apnea worse. I don't wanna argue but since dropping from 8MG to 4MG a day I have gotten better. Either way, thanks for the heads up and good luck.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Beware Of Ambien
PostPosted: Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:35 am 
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Ambien is the devil's brew :twisted: You will keep building a tolerance and
start doing crazy things :shock: I've been using Seroquel every night for
three years for my insomnia and it has been a lifesaver :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 1:45 am 
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I just got diagnosed with both types and have been on Suboxone for over a year. I take 2 sublingual films per day. It only takes the edge off but if I take more I get sleepy. In February I got real sick and was intubated, which caused a lung to blow. I was on oxygen until November and after I got off I started noticing that my sleeping was worse. I just did the Apnea test and my Pulmonary Dr wants to talk to my Dr about the Suboxone she said that might be the problem. I haven't seeen him yet, but can't wait :(:(:( . I had breathing issues before this but not this bad. My Doctors just racked it up as a condition of my CHF ( congestive heart failure). Will post when I get some answers.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 17, 2013 3:55 am 
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I also had this problem. They make a CPAP machine that supposedly addresses this problem, it has a built in ventilator that automatically breathes for you in addition to treating the obstructive sleep apnea part. You can find them used for a cheaper price on the internet. I think I paid about 400.00 for it which is cheap considering they cost 3K+ new. But, there are some reports that this still isn't an effective treatment. I don't think they fully understand how to treat this situation, but it needs to be addressed. This is what causes people to die in their sleep from using opiates. They just stop breathing. I had to quit Sub because of a number of problems. My sleep is still messed up. I wake a number of times at night but I no longer wake up gasping for air. I also need to loose weight. I keep experimenting with the CPAP machine. I did turn off the ventilator part and for now I slept better without it. There is no winning this game. With Sub I had a bunch of horrible side effects but without it I turn into a vegetable with no desire to much of anything.

Also, just a note on my experience with Seroquel. I used that for a number of years also but I think it led to more problems with sleep apnea. Seroquel knocked me out but it also turned me into a zombie where I no longer tossed and turned from one side to the other side. I just ended up on my back practically unconscious and this is the worse position to be in for sleep apnea. You want to be on your side as much as possible and normal sleep involves turning from side to side. Now I am finally sleeping on my sides most of the time, so it comes back. All of these sleep drugs work good for a short while but turn on you and make sleep much worse over time. It took me a long time to get over Benzos and other sleep drugs but there is no pill answer for sleep problem in the long run, in my opinion.
Russ


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:03 am 
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While searching web for same exact question I came here. I've been on subozone subutex for 3+ years..I was a polysomnograher..(tested patients for sleep disorders) just had my second sleep study for myself to try c pap..Well I now have central sleep apneas from suboxone.I'm young in great shape not a canidate for apnea. It is very serious and life threatening even.This has to be looked into and after my experience I will be pursuing this in legal terms. If anyone else is interested in joining my efforts message me.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:56 pm 
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I wonder if this is specific to suboxone or rather specific to opiates. Has there been a scientific study to determine if this apnea is caused by the specific formulation of suboxone? For example, does the addition of naloxone to buprenorphine make a difference? Unfortunately, anecdotal evidence from sleep doctors, polysomnographers, etc. is a place to start with a hypothesis, but not a place to definitively have proof.

When people die from opiate overdoses, it is obvious that the opiates and anything additional that depresses the respiratory system is the cause of death. Surely, people who are abusing opiates during active addiction have the side effect of apnea too. It's a logical conclusion. However, addicts in active addiction are not typically having sleep studies done, right? They would have to disclose the "medications" they are on at the time, which they do not want to admit. And they're usually too busy getting high to care about their medical health.

So you're interested in suing the makers of buprenorphine products because they gave you sleep apnea, which you probably also had during active addiction (if you are an addict). Why don't you just go off the medication since it's giving you a side effect that's undesirable? Probably because you don't have many options if you're an opiate addict. I would hate to see legal action make bupe products unavailable, because I would rather have apnea and have to use a Cpap machine than be back in active addiction.

Obviously, I'm skeptical that it's suboxone, specifically, that is causing apnea, as opposed to opiates in general. However, if there are any large scale, or even small scale studies that have yielded any evidence that suboxone is the culprit, please let me know.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:20 pm 
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I really hate that litigation has become a source of income-making in this company. I see one law firm or another advertising class action suits against just about every other medication that I'm on. It's difficult and costly enough to bring a medicine to market, but now I guess they have to factor in class action suits as an inevitable business cost.


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