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 Post subject: Anxiety & Tapering
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:56 pm 
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Hey, all....I'm thankful to have this place to ask these questions.

I wanted to know if any others on here had dealt with the anxiety thingie when tapering. Since I dropped so fast last month and spiraled into an anxiety state when all the built up Sub left me, it has left me with a fear of that happening again.

I know, I know....it was caused by my impatience and trying to wean too fast. I still marvel that I felt no anxiety at all until I hit 8 mgs/day....and really thought I could tough it out but it worsened everyday staying at that low dose (well, low for me because I had been on 24 mgs day one month earlier). But, I listen to the rest of you that are at say, .5 or 1 mg, and now I wonder...was it just me or did they ever have problems too?

I know we are all different. I'm going to read DoaQ's taper thread and read a good taper and see how it went.

But was just curious....how long did it take you who are at the very low doses now to get down to that dose from when you started tapering?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:19 pm 
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Clearaqua, like i said in some of my other posts..im quick to chime n and try to help people when i still cant pick myself back up, but i can tell you the anxiety is normal and is just a reminder of WHY WE WANT TO QUIT! This feeling sucks. Im on day 11 with no subs/or opiates! ive made it through the physical w/d symptoms but im still battling the anxiety/ emotion part as well. It is normal and i believe everyone on here who tells me it will go away! I went from using bout 16 mg a day of sub, to 4mg the very next day, i did 4mg a a day for 7 days and on the 8th morning i just woke up and quit it all!!!! i dont say this to boast or brag, but i think that if i made it on this type of tapering schedule then this tells you it is possible and the anxiety/ depression we feel we need to just turn around into positive energy as to why we wanna quit!! i feel like im ramblin but i just want to give you some support as others have helped me tremendously!! KEEP YOUR HEAD UP!!!! Things WILL get better!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 7:32 pm 
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Hi there sweets! I have definitely experienced anxiety, and at times major anxiety with panic attacks from going down in my doses. Going from 4mgs to 2mgs was when I experienced it the most, and just the week before last I had some on and off for a few days.

I however, have always had anxiety, so I take depacote and elavil for that (as well as migraines), so I believe if I was not on those two, I would have it much much worse. I have also heard from others, and my dr had told me as well to expect anxiety. My dr told me to always call him if it gets out of control because there are other medications he could give me as opposed to going up on my sub dose to eleviate them if necessary. So with all that said, and to answer your question, yes I definitely have had anxiety associated with changing my sub dose, you are definitely not the only one there.

I started being medicated for my anxiety when I was in high school, and have never done well with them. Most of the ones I've tried actually made it worse, or caused me great discomfort. However, depacote has been the one that has pretty much saved me from a life secluded in my home.

Also, when I did experience it the worst from decreasing my dose from 4mg to 2mg it was short lived. I only had it the worst for a few days, and it did linger, but it was tolerable. Definitely let your dr know if you are experiencing it really bad again, b/c he may have other tips to offer to help you. I have recently discovered "sleepy time tea" helps me tremendously at night with anxiety and the jitters that I have been getting. It really relaxes me and knocks me out for the night. I had a cup last night with honey and lemon and it's really tasty. I'm not much of a tea drinker, more coffee, but I have to say this stuff is pretty good, and it comes in alot of flavors. Excersizing, and hot baths also help me.

Ohhh and one more thing I keep forgetting to mention....this is not for everyone, so it may no be for you, but I'm just throwing it out there, here in NY we have feet specialists who strictly deal with healing your body with pressure points and massage in your feet. I've done it twice, and although I would have never thought so it was extremely helpful to me

Hugs!
Rene

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:24 pm 
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Thanks for your answers, newlife and rain :)

newlife...I cannot believe you are jumping from 4 mgs! I am so in awe of you. I'm truly pulling for you and hope you do extremely well. I can see why we would have anxiety...as much as we worry about trying to come off this med. I'm trying to "go with the flow" now ....no hurry, just slow and easy. Please, please let us know how it goes with you.

rain, I have had anxiety on and off since I was about 13. I have only had 3 "eras" of it...one very young, one in my twenties and then during mid-life (mid-40s), each era lasting 2-3 years...during these times, I did have panic attacks. It's like it came, hung around for a few years and then left. I never took meds for it except in my 40s when my doctor gave me a prescription for Ativan just as needed. I never took it much...only if I felt on the brink of a panic attack. I've always felt that anxiety breeds anxiety. As in...when it would come, my fear of it would feed it and cause it to get stronger, but then I would finally be able to break free of it and get back to "normal" (or whatever that means!)

I haven't had any anxiety that interfered with my daily life in so long, this really floored me! I'm glad to know it was not just me and this is a reaction to the taper.

rain, I'm so glad you're doing better now...and glad you have an understanding doctor. It sure does make it easier.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 8:47 pm 
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it took me about a year to get from between 2 to 4mg a day to where I am now at .01mg a day. But it really took about 3 months of real tapering to the point that I had a family member hold my meds so I couldnt take extra. this really helped me not obsess about taking more because I was only given daily doses and had one emergency dose incase of any real problems.
In the last three months or so I went from 1mg to .01mg. In the last 20 days from 1/8th of 2mg to .01mg.

I had terrible anxiety when I was on 2-4mg subs a day to the point of panic attacks. This was one of my main reasons for getting off since I never had this before subs. surprisingly, I have found myself suffering very little anxiety on these extra low doses. I do have bad RLS and agitation sometimes (maybe 3 days a week), especially when sitting still. But since being on almost nothing, the anxiety has also substantially dissipated. When I did have the anxiety my doctor prescribed me beta blockers instead of those other addictive and dreadful benzos. stay away from those, they are worse withdrawal-wise than opiates. anyway try beta blockers and know that when you get low and eventually off the anxiety will most likely get better since i think it is influenced greatly by being in a constant state of withdrawal. A major side-effect of withdrawal is anxiety.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:40 am 
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I had really bad anxiety & panic attacks for years. I took benzos (xanax and klonopin at different times) for a long time, though I never had a problem with them. Eventually, I got off the benzos by learning to meditate.

I know meditation sounds all hippy or spiritual or whatever, but it doesn't have to be. You can do totally secular meditation if that's what works for you. Mindfulness meditation is a great practice for learning how to deal with all kinds of emotions, thoughts and mental states. It is a simple practice that produces results really quickly. Scientific studies even show that meditation has positive, measurable effects on the brain.

If you start a meditation practice now & stick with it, you will have mad skills in a few months that will serve you well both throughout your taper and after when you're living life without drugs. Hatmaker and Jackcrack are also both meditators - I think Hat has a thread around here about it.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:44 am 
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Here's that thread about meditation:

http://suboxforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=8126

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:47 am 
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I started to taper in Jan at 8mg it got tough after 1mg, now I am at .25 and skipping a dose every third day... I am having anxiety for sure .. and acting like a little drama queen but when I see myself doing that I tend to get it in perspective.

I will say I am a high anxiety person to begin with, totally adhd and hyper.. working out seems to help that. I was taking klonipin and clonadine but I am goign to stop the klonapin I think it makes me more anxious when I am not on it... so last night I didnt take it and I am fine today.. I dont feel much anxiety but I want to take this one day at a time.

I am goign to jump soon..;.... just not sure what day it will be yet ;)

hang in there .. there is a light at the end of the tunnel

Lisa


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 8:51 am 
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Thanks, DoaQ....I will read this....anything to relax and focus would be very helpful.

I had no outward anxiety symptoms until last week, I mean for years! Now, I've got to talk myself out of being afraid to push onward. Hearing from the rest of you having the same struggles is such encouragement.

Can't be afraid of it....we have to tackle it head-on.

I know one thing...and that is I am NOT cutting one sliver off my dose until I feel just fine at this does. No need to put yourself thru that!

Does anyone have any thoughts or basis for tapering being easier off subutex vs. suboxone? I'm going to the strips my next prescription as suggested by my doctor but just wondering about the difference between the two.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:04 am 
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Aqua not sure if you have insurance of not but there is a 40.00 coupon on suboxone.com for the strips... there was a 75.00 one last year but it changed in march to 40.00 off the strips and can be used as part of a co pay my copay is like 65.00 and it really helped :)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:42 am 
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ClearAqua wrote:
Thanks, DoaQ....I will read this....anything to relax and focus would be very helpful.

I had no outward anxiety symptoms until last week, I mean for years! Now, I've got to talk myself out of being afraid to push onward. Hearing from the rest of you having the same struggles is such encouragement.

Can't be afraid of it....we have to tackle it head-on.

I know one thing...and that is I am NOT cutting one sliver off my dose until I feel just fine at this does. No need to put yourself thru that!

Does anyone have any thoughts or basis for tapering being easier off subutex vs. suboxone? I'm going to the strips my next prescription as suggested by my doctor but just wondering about the difference between the two.



I went from the pills to the strips when I switched from 4mg to 2mg, and also b/c that 75.00 coupon was available then...I didn't feel any difference, but for some reason and I think it was all in my head, I felt the strips were stronger..but looking back I think it is just that they dissolve so much faster, and I probably wasn't allowing my pills to dissolved enough, and accurately so that is most likely why that happend to me..

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The old skin has to be shed before the new one can come.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 9:44 am 
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Diary of a Quitter wrote:
I had really bad anxiety & panic attacks for years. I took benzos (xanax and klonopin at different times) for a long time, though I never had a problem with them. Eventually, I got off the benzos by learning to meditate.

I know meditation sounds all hippy or spiritual or whatever, but it doesn't have to be. You can do totally secular meditation if that's what works for you. Mindfulness meditation is a great practice for learning how to deal with all kinds of emotions, thoughts and mental states. It is a simple practice that produces results really quickly. Scientific studies even show that meditation has positive, measurable effects on the brain.

If you start a meditation practice now & stick with it, you will have mad skills in a few months that will serve you well both throughout your taper and after when you're living life without drugs. Hatmaker and Jackcrack are also both meditators - I think Hat has a thread around here about it.


I love meditating...it is such a great thing once you master it...It took me a long time to get it right though, I wasn't always able to focus completely. It took me a lot of training to completely get all thoughts of the day out of my head...but once I did, it was great. It has helped me with my anxiety tremendously!! I have to say when you said I know it sounds hippy or spiritual or whatever I was cracking up!! I have a friend that calls me the hippy meditator! LMAO I don't know why that stigma is with it, b/c it really does help!!

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The old skin has to be shed before the new one can come.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 10:00 am 
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mg, that gives me much hope to hear you were 8 mgs in Jan! Fantastic job!!!

rain, I should've known you'd be a meditator :) Ok, ok...going to read DoaQ's link and start incorporating it. I already love doing a "prayer time" at night...most nights I fall asleep praying...used to feel bad about it until my husband said "What a great way to go to sleep...in conversation with God". When I heard it put like that, there was nothing to feel bad about! I get so relaxed during it and try to let my mind go, my worries go...and just feel that "peace that passes all understanding".

I realized that a lot of my anxiety could be from some personal issues too. We have a lot going on in our life right now and I wondered, is this a good time to begin a taper? But really, is there EVER a good time? Life is life and it's going to throw us curveballs regularly :) Anytime is a good time, as long as you have support, flexibility within your goals and a realization that "this too, shall pass".


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 11:22 am 
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Aqua I too keep trying to find the " road of less anxiety" time when I go down on a dose lol.... but its so true what you said "is there EVER really a good time". I do find that on the days that I am feeling more anxious it helps to workout, and do things that I love to do .. like ride my motorcycle, hike, go get a pedicure etc............ and I like how you pray at bedtime that makes sense I might have to try that too :). The past two days I skipped working out cuz I have a cold coming on and the two days I didnt work out I had extra high anxiety so I definitely recommend working out of some sort even if its taking a walk.

I will say this too.. I was taking kolonapin to help with the anxiety at night which it helped but I also think it made me more depressed in the daytime ( i was never a benzo person) so last night I only took colonadine and my anti depressants ( I take seroquil for depression) and my mood seems better today so I think unless I am in dire pain I will pass on the benzos.

Lisa


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 12:43 pm 
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mg113 wrote:
Aqua I too keep trying to find the " road of less anxiety" time when I go down on a dose lol.... but its so true what you said "is there EVER really a good time". I do find that on the days that I am feeling more anxious it helps to workout, and do things that I love to do .. like ride my motorcycle, hike, go get a pedicure etc............ and I like how you pray at bedtime that makes sense I might have to try that too :). The past two days I skipped working out cuz I have a cold coming on and the two days I didnt work out I had extra high anxiety so I definitely recommend working out of some sort even if its taking a walk.

I will say this too.. I was taking kolonapin to help with the anxiety at night which it helped but I also think it made me more depressed in the daytime ( i was never a benzo person) so last night I only took colonadine and my anti depressants ( I take seroquil for depression) and my mood seems better today so I think unless I am in dire pain I will pass on the benzos.

Lisa


I had the most awful experience with benzo's, specifically xanax, and some others as well. I don't know why, but they put me in full blown depression. I felt so tired, and "heavy" it was like just walking around the house took all the energy I could muster. After that experience I've been terrified of them!! I seem to have bad experiences with alot of medicines, so I was always thankful the clonodine, and the subs were ok for me to take. I am always reluctant and scared when having to try something new. I actually think my anxiety would give me side effects from a placebo! LMAO

I digressed though, I wanted to just add to the doing fun things you enjoy, and excersize helping with the anxiety. I have to say that running has always done the best for me with that. I feel sooooo good when I get done with a run..Lately I've been pushing a little harder b/c I have a marathon coming up, and I love the way I feel when I'm done, and I'm so tired, but it's a good tired, that usually after a hot cup of tea, I'm out like a light. I definitely think, and this is just from my experiences with anxiety in general, even before my addiction added to it, that the more naturally you can heal it, and help your symptoms at the given time, the more tools you will have when it's really bad, to help you get it under control. Even if you don't have an excersize regime I find brisk walks, and dancing are very therapuetic.

A good back massage is always good too!! :)

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Aqua,

I pray while I'm in bed also and I often fall asleep while in the middle of praying. I felt guilty about this for a long time, but I really like what your husband said. Praying just relaxes me so much, I let go of all the worry and anxiety of the day then BAM, I'm asleep. After reading what you said on the subject, I am going to stop feeling guilty if I fall asleep while I'm praying. THANKS!!

As far as the meditation goes to calm anxiety, I may have to start doing that during the day. My anxiety isn't terrible, but it's certainly not a pleasant feeling. I may have to put a flower in my hair and hippy-ize myself and start learning more about this meditation stuff. :D If I can use it to help calm myself down, then it'll be worth it.

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 Post subject: Praying in Bed
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 3:44 pm 
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Dear Romeo,

Maybe God puts you to sleep so He doesn't have to continue to listen to yer whining & complaining. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously, I kid.

Love,

DoaQ

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 4:13 pm 
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Dairy Queen,

Here I am, putting myself out there and I got the peanut gallery lobbing grenades at me? lol

Your last comments evoked a belly laugh the likes of which I have not experienced in a while!!

See if I ever pray for you again!! :lol:

Love,

Romeo

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 5:14 pm 
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OMGosh, Romeo and Diary that was too cute and hilarious!! Between Diary's first comment and then Romeo telling Diary "see if I ever pray for you again" Oh dear, that was a goooood laugh!!

Thanks guys!


Oh and Clear- I totally LOVE to pray at night before bed, and have been doing that with my children now too, and my daughter will set down on her little knees and pray with all her might for all the people in the world that she can think of. It's by far my most favorite time of day with my children!

Hugs!!!

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The old skin has to be shed before the new one can come.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 6:43 pm 
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Hi Clear Aqua,
This is my first post on this site. I tapered down to 1 mg and jumped 5 days ago. My experience tapering was from a max of 12 mg starting 8 weeks ago. I would cut my dose in half each time and go through about 3 days of being sick each time. You can do it too! If you are having a rough time landing at a certain level just stay a few days longer at the old dose. Its not easy but my wife always said that if it wasn't difficult I wouldn't be bothered with it. I am coming off a 10 year habit of 20 pills a day (all prescribed legally). I'm also 59 years old. I'll be praying for you. If I had it to do over I would have tapered lower as I am in full blown withdrawal now, but I will not go back!


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