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 Post subject: ANXIETY and SCARED
PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Hello all, I am new here and I am worried. I battled with addiction for a while and I had some run ins with Suboxone. The first two times I took it, I did not take it long before it gave me severe headaches and stuff, so I quit cold turkey twice.

Of course, over time, I relapsed. After getting back into pain medication I decided to take Suboxone again. I have not gone to a doctor, I just get them illegally. I know this is probably frowned upon, but I need help. I always knew that Suboxone was strong so I started taking 1mg twice a day instead of taking it when I felt a craving like when I was younger (stupid I know). So I though doing it right this time would help me quit all together and not have to worry about wasting my life and money on pills.

Well, it did work for a very long time. It worked for about 7 months now. Until I started to get panic attacks at work. Everyone has a reason as to why they get panic attacks, mine is afraid of severe illness, disease or heart attacks and stuff. I usually could control it, but sometime I feel as if the Suboxone makes the rush come without notice and it gets me thinking there is something wrong with me. I was getting twitches in my finger and all over my body, which I thought was normal with Suboxone but it started to scare me. I went to the doctor and he said since I have no clinical weakness or muscle deterioration it is benign. I got blood work back and it was all normal.

But still, I do not feel right. Because of the depression and anxiety ridden state I was in, I did not go to work for 2 weeks to try and get better. This has happened before, but I always quit Suboxone or pain killers and this anxiety/depression feeling went away. Well, this time I did not quit the Suboxone. Being so depressed I cannot imagine quitting right now as the depression from quitting Suboxone would drain me so much and I am scared.

I want to start weaning off the Suboxone but when I look things up online all I hear is people state how Suboxone w/d is like heroin and it is the worst thing ever. I am assuming they are on a lot higher dose than I am but still, it is scary. This is the longest I have been on Suboxone and I want to get off. My girlfriend did Suboxone for a few months and never felt one w/d. She eventually forgot to take the Suboxone and never looked back. Why do I have such adverse effects?

Is the twitching normal with Suboxone?

Can I wean off painlessly if I am taking 1.5mg - 2.0mg a day?

What can I do to help the anxiety and depression I feel suddenly?

Please help me! :(


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:10 am 
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I feel ya, TC, trust me I feel ya. I also suffer from intense anxiety and depression, and it seems like subs actually made these a lot worse for me. I'm in your same boat. It seems nigh impossible to start weaning down when feeling like this. Supposedly you're supposed to feel "normal" while on subs. We're already feeling bad, and purposely making ourselves feeling even worse, day after day, month after month, seems really hard.

I dont have any great advice as I'm going through this as well. Just hang in there, you will get off of this and your life will improve after you do so, granted you stay clean and sober and give your brain and neurotransmitters time to heal. Keep posting in this forum as your bound to eventually run into someone who's been in your same situation and they can tell you how they got through it.

Also, maybe try out Clonidine for the anxiety. It also helps with withdrawals too! Most sub doctors prescribe this on the side towards the end stages, however mine put me on and i'm still at 4mg. It helps to lower your blood pressure, which in turn lowers your heart rate making you less anxious.

Oh and on the topic of weaning and jumping off, my advice (though I havent test it yet, just basing this off reading tons of posts) is to get down as low as you can go, as slow as possible. I figured out that I can cut the strips and the Subutex pills down to .06mg. I have a feeling that if i slowly lower my dose down to that, staying at each dose for a period of 2 weeks or so, that's when there will truly be no withdrawals like most doctors promise. My tentative taper schedule would be as follows: getting down to 1mg should be the easy part, then after a period of time drop down to .75, stay on that for at least 2 weeks, or as long as you deem necessary until you feel your body has been accustomed to that dose, then go to .50mg and do the same process, then .25, followed by .125, then .06, and maybe even .03 if your still feelings nervous/mild withdrawals. Oh, and also I heard it was good that once you get down to the lower levels that i just listed, to try and get into a routine of skipping days in between doses. If you can get into a pattern of taking it every other day, in theory it should make it easier. And I'm hoping that it will be possible to reduce that even further and take it once every three days after that stage.

Ehhh..got a long road ahead of us. Hang in there though!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 7:39 am 
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I don't know how old you are, but when I was younger I went through this same thing with panic attacks...I would hyperventilate and just get scared to death..maybe it is not the suboxone at all and maybe you are not taking enough?
It is just a thought and I am no doctor but I take 8 to 10 mg. a day and I feel really good.

Yes the twiches are normal, I had them too but they went away after a while.

You have been to the doctor and everything checked out normal so you are probably healthy. 'Worry is an awful thing and I understand how you feel as I have been there as well. I am older now and I have found out that most of the things we worry about do not ever happen and we waste all these good years being full of fear of whatever is our worry.

The thing is not to worry about anything until something actually happens...like you can worry about getting cancer but until you have been diagnosed with it why borrow trouble. I also know this is easier said than done.

It seems to me like it would be better for you to stay on suboxone than relapse on your drug of choice.

The mind can make us feel bad physically, be full of fear about nothing, and do all sorts of things with us. Maybe you could change your mindset. Also getting them off the street is your business but if you could find a doctor that would give you subutex that might make you feel much better.

Whatever you do I wish you the best and my advice is just that..I certainly don't have all the answers. I will say I got off suboxone once because after 1 year my doctor at that time made me and gave me 30 8mg. tablets and told me to reduce off....I tried to cut down but then I would cheat and take an 8mg. so I basically quit on probably 4 or 5 mg. I do not remember having the awful withdrawal talked about here, but I am not demeaning the people that do have it.
I just was beginning to get my drugs again and decided to go to another doctor and get back on sub. as I didn't want to live in addiction hell again.

Best of luck to you and let us know how you are doing.

Sincerely,
Slipper


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 11:48 am 
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Hi JayDub and welcome to the forum.

First I'll say that YES, you most definitely can taper off even though you're already on a low dose. You've already been given excellent advice on that from Caboose. I don't even think I will elaborate on that. I will say that Suboxone withdrawal is not worse than heroin nor is it the worst ever! Most will say it's much less intense, but some will say it lingers longer. But as long as you do a long, slow taper, the withdrawals will be much, much less severe (like your friend's experience). That's the KEY.

As for your anxiety and panic attacks, do you see a therapist? If not, have you considered it? Are you on an antidepressant? That might really help you out. I also think the notion of going off suboxone could be contributing to your anxiety. You've been doing well and stable for 7 months and it's normal to be anxious about weaning off - everyone is!

Might I offer a different perspective? Anxiety is caused from living in the future. I'd suggest you consider finding a way to change your perspective to living in the present, because you are clearly living much of your life in the future to have these attacks based on things that haven't happened yet. It's been so important to reducing my own habit of worrying so much. I know my own "worries" don't compare to the level of your anxiety, but it can only help, right? And if you combine that new thinking with therapy and maybe an antidepressant, and clonidine while you're tapering, well, that might just be the ticket.

Good luck with your taper. Again, welcome!

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-As I have grown older, I've learned that pleasing everyone is impossible, but pissing everyone off is a piece of cake.

-I'm only responsible for what I say, not for what you understand.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Thanks for the replies. I went and saw a Neurologist and she said I have BFS which is basically benign twitching and that taking any test for serious diseases is pointless and would be to ease my mind only.

Although, I want to talk about the Suboxone. I have been going up and down with crazy fear feelings from reading things and I learned to stay away from the negative posts on the forums, but I cannot escape the fact that I am almost positive that both the anxiety and fear that even causes the muscle twitches is from the Suboxone. I have basically got myself down to CRUMS of Suboxone. I take such small amounts twice a day now that I cannot imagine I am taking more than .75 - 1mg a day. But here is where it gets tricky.

Today I woke up yawning and feeling a bit restless and I felt like it was time to take a VERY small piece of Suboxone for the day. Mind you, the feeling I had was definitely physically bearable but mentally I felt depressed and though that it was because I didn't take ANY SUboxone for the day. So I took the piece and when it hit me, I INSTANTLY (right now) got anxiety. It started with my inner-thigh twitching (like something moving under my skin all around) and now I have that tight feeling in my central nervous system. This almost exact same thing happened to me last night when I took a CRUM before I laid down. Maybe the months before I was able to tolerate this anxiety? I do not know, all I know is that when I take it now I get almost immobile. 4 weeks ago when these episodes first started, I was getting severe anxiety over other things, not the twitches. It almost feels like my brain just started rejecting the medication.

I am so scared. I am scared not because of the anxiety I have now and the tightness all in my body, but I am scared about weaning off completely. I've gotten to 5-6pm with taking absolutely no Suboxone and never really feeling withdrawal but I always took it just in case I wouldn't be able to go to bed that night (I do not like to take it close to bedtime). I know the second day of not taking anything is when the withdrawal is the worst, but how can this be possible? If I am on such a low amount, how would I even feel withdrawal.

What do you guys recommend? Do you recommend me continuing to see how low of a dose I can take twice a day? Or should I try to skip and day, then take a little amount?

I don't know what to do and I keep getting weird feeling like my ears are popping and I am so stiff and tight. I can feel my heart beating in my teeth and I almost feel like I am damned if I do and damned if I don't take Suboxone.

P.S. The feeling that I get I can only explain as my stomach muscles contracting. I get continuous rushes that feel like I have gas or sinking on a roller coaster. It wakes me up sometimes but I feel it most around the time I take my dosage. It is almost like the anxiety I am supposed to feel from withdrawing I am not feeling while taking it and it is the depression I feel when I need it.


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 Post subject: Anxiety and Depression
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:34 am 
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I am one of those people who have not been fortunate enough to have a good experience with suboxone. While I agree (and am grateful) that it is better than the drug I gave up, I am in my 25th month of hell. The anxiety and depression are ruining my life, my marriage, my relationships with my daughters and my work. Most days I am nothing short of paralyzed by anxiety and sit on the floor in my bedroom in front of the TV because I can't bear silence. I need the TV on but prefer to be alone. Within 30 minutes of taking my sub dose I want to curl up and die. I frequently sleep right there on the floor with blankets over my head and fall sleep to fantasies of suicide. I started at 24 mgs and got down to 6mg a day but was actually taking only 2mg in the morning and 1 or 2 mgs late afternoon but the doc convinced me that I would end the depression if I increased my dose so I went back to 8mgs. I actually had a good week after that but then I was back to feeling like crap. In addition to the emotional stuff the sub just wreaks havoc with my bowels. If I don't have a BM before I take my suboxone in the morning I won't be able to until the next morning and then I just feel terrible for the entire day. I know this is getting long but writing about it is somehow therapeutic so thanks for your patience. My day is always the same: wake up full of pain in my knees and hips and feeling terrible, take the sub and sometimes doze off for a bit. I also take Zoloft but it doesn't stop the anxiety. I force myself into the shower and then struggle for four or five hours with anxiety and depression and worry. Around 2pm I feel a bit better and usually able to work for a couple of hours but around dinner time I am starting to feel uncomfortable again. Sometimes, if I have to do something, I will take a bit more suboxone then and I am able to function for a couple of hours but by 8pm I am counting the minutes until I can go to bed. This routine is wearing me down so much and I dread each new day. What a mess!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:48 pm 
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I am sorry you are dealing with this..I am all too familiar with anxiety and panic attacks(occurred 3 yrs into my Sub *treatment*). Before sub I was the most un-anxious person in the world before the sub..some of the stuff I used to do...to think now, it would probably kill me!
I also fear having medical problems...I think part of that is I now feel every little twinge,ache "abnormality" in my body. I also have a 7 year old daughter and to the outside world I am the "most normal person" they know. Thats a lot to carry. I went the ER man times thinking I was having a heart attack...didn't help they found a heart murmur, although benign. It was probably my 8 or 9th full blown panic attack(passing out from hyperventilating) that I found something that helped. I tell everyone who tells me they have panic attacks. I truly think it saved my life. An ER nurse told me...I have tried to find her and thank her, but haven't been able to. Anyhow, the nest time you are panicking and your heart is racing, place your pointer and middle finger on your wrist...carefully count your pulse. You will probably realize that your heart is not beating 10,000 bpm...plus the "task at hand" of taking your pulse and having something to concentrate helps. You have to realize that a panic attack is cross-fire of sorts in your brain. In some people(like us) our "flight or fight" response is sensitive and triggered when not really necessary. Since there is "nothing actually to run from", you have to FIGHT. Take your pulse, take control of your anxiety and tell it to f* off. I also got a dog....Had a panic attack on the way to the airport to pick her up...pulled over on the loop in Chicago and hyperventilated into a bag(driving is major trigger for me and funny enough first panic attack happened while driving-ha I thought it was antifreeze poisoning-even had my car towed...surely there could not be something wrong with ME!)Anyhow back to my dog...I trained her in Schutzhund...conformation and competition level obedience every single day..She is a great dane and I love her.I have had her 3 years now...the first two years after getting her, I did not have one single full blown panic attack(and just manage the anxiety with my pulse taking). This past year I have had a couple but I have also had added stress.
So...long story short..get a dog anbd take your pulse.
As for the illegal subs...try to get to a Doc(legally)and then get off them asap.. There is too much life to live, trust me!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Sorry I need to learn to read dates..just realized I replied to an old post and someone else has posted something new in here(fish guy).

My advice probably doesn't apply very well to you. I would strongly suggest that you talk with your doctor and mention your feelings. It could be the Zoloft is not working for you, perhaps you need something else. I am sorry you are suffering as so. I would not wish depression on anyone, but please be assured you are not alone...there is help out there, but YOU must ask for it. I would try a different medication for the depression and have the doctors adjust your sub dose until your feeling better. Once you have had some time of feeling better with yourself you can taper again. It WILL get better...I have been there and I can tell you it does!


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