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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:18 am 
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Have any of you ever had that characteristic rash you get when you are allergic to an AD? I have been on several over the years, so I know it when I see it. At my last visit I decided with my doc to raise my dose of Lexapro because I'm tapering off Sub. Even though I've been on Celexa/Lexapro for years, about a week after raising my dose I got the rash. So I went back down to my former dose and it didn't help, like now I'm sensitized to it. So I stopped taking it, just until I see my doc. I was concerned, because I have had rebound depression coming off of AD's, and severe depression coming off Subs, so I don't want to do both at the same time for sure.

In the meantime, I had skipped a day of Sub, just because I got up really late and went out and didn't think about it 'till suppertime. The next day I felt good, so I figured I wait and see, because in the past I've had better luck tapering by skipping doses than by reducing a little at a time. So yesterday, I had been off my AD for at least 5 days and was about 48 hours without Sub. We had a family get together at my house, which usually stresses me out. But I actually had such a good time, I was laughing hysterically to the point of tears while we were telling the old funny stories. It was like a natural high, and I haven't felt that way in Years! My young daughter even said she hasn't seen me laugh like that in a year. And my husband actually accused me of drinking, even though I hadn't had a drop. It was like for one brief shining moment I came out from the fog of chemicals that i have been in for years. So what did I do? I took a dose of Sub. I really wanted to wait and see how long it would take until I started feeling crappy. But I almost felt manic, even hours later, and I was afraid I was in for a crash. I stayed up late and got up early, and I was still wound up (if you recall I had been complaining that i sleep 12 hours a day). I took my Sub, but a lower dose So, if this sticks I'll be down to 3-4mg/day.

So I don't even know what the point of this post is. The last 24 hours have been so DIFFERENT from the last 2 years, but mostly in a good way. So what do you guys think, am I rebounding from the AD? Am I manic? I've never been diagnosed bipolar. I have been so afraid of withdrawals that I never considered that lowering my meds could actually make me feel good!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:37 am 
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I think having stopped your AD so quickly could very well be the cause of your hypo-manic mood (it sounds like that more than straight mania to me). You're dealing with all those neurotransmitters that relate to emotions and it just seems logical to me that it could cause some mood swings. That said, I have nothing to back that up, like I said, it just sort of makes sense to me.

I highly doubt it was the lower sub dose. With it's long half life plus the stacking, there was still likely plenty of sub still in your system.

But that's just my personal take on it.

Remember though, when it comes to withdrawing, DOQ described how her emotions sort of went a bit wacky or extreme (I don't remember how she described it), but it was a result of the withdrawals, and not from coming off suboxone, as her emotions and mood returned to normal once the w/d ended.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2011 8:08 pm 
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I love being up, with that energy charged feeling... My psyciatrist dosent like it, but after a couple years of me he's gotten used to it... He put me on lithium for 7 months , I was so depressed everyday on lithium, always tired... I quit taking it, I have a little mania all the time and LOVE it, be happy Lilly, you don't deserve your feelings and emotions to be FLAT, we know alot about ourselves today, lets keep things under control, Mike ( 1mg Suboxone per day )


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 12:27 am 
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So today I told my husband we need some "time apart", then spent most of the rest of the day crying. (you're right, painter, I would have enjoyed staying manic). I used to be a bright, smart brainiac, and now I feel like drugs and meds have ruined my life.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 10:32 am 
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Hi Lilly,

Gosh, I'm so sorry that you're going through such a rough time. I can't say that I know exactly how you feel, but I know this, when I quit Suboxone I went and saw my addiciton counselor 3 or 4 more times before I pretty much stopped seeing him. Anyway, on one of those visits, I remember him saying to me that I was acting as if I was manic. I would go from crying over how sickening my wd was, then I would come back to being almost happy, back to sobbing, back to being almost happy.

I would certainly say that an effect of wd could be some manic episodes....seemed to be for me anyway.

I'm wondering if just lowering your dose was enough to "set you off'?

BTW, it took a while for my emotions to stabilize, but stabilize they did. I certainly don't have the wild emotional swings that I used to have while in acute or PAWS.

I remember a recovering addict telling me to NOT make life changing decisions when I was in wd because I wasn't really me.

I don't know if any of this is helping. I'm just talking and hoping that you can find something you can relate to.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Actually, it IS helping, a lot. I think Hat is right, it's more the abrupt stop of the AD than anything, but reducing my dose of Sub isn't helping matters. I'm going to stay on a solid 4mg at least until I see the doc. Thanks for your input guys, it's good to know you don't think I'm flat out crazy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:24 am 
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i tapered all the way down to 2.5mg every other day with lexapro and stopped it about a month ago..

Ive been miserable ever since... I cant wait to get back on Lexapro..... I am also crazy as well... :(

Lexapro makes everything so calm and chill and relaxed no anxiety whatsover so nice..


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:01 am 
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I have no clue what could have caused that semi manic phase. I know I've been getting quite a few of those since I've been tapering, and then I feel like total depressed dog poop. I've been laughing at so many things to where my stomach hurts and my kids laugh to see me laugh like that. My husband says I've "gotten my sense of humor back." I told him, "No, you just finally thought of something funny to say." :D Like I said, though, then I get in the dumps and feel very down about everything, so I certainly think tapering or lowering one's Sub dose can send one on an emotional roller coaster.

BTW, the way that you are spacing your doses....SMART, SMART, SMART!!! Seriously, I believe that tapering off Sub will be twenty times easier for you than if you had gotten your body used to getting some on a regular basis and then tried to just reduce that regular amount by a tiny bit. At least for me, the tiny reduction over a long period has been a big whopping failure, though I know it works for other people. In fact, I was struggling to get below .5 until less than a week ago, and then I started only dosing when I really needed it and now I'm between .25 and .375 per day!! This way absolutely works for some of us.

You're doing great, and it sounds like you've found exactly what works for you, so now you just need to get through the rebound crap from having to stop your Lexapro so quickly.

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:02 am 
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Hi Lilly,

I was going to wait until morning to post this, but I'm having some trouble sleeping tonight so I figured, what the hey.....I'll check in on Lilly now.....even though you're probably going ZZZZzzzz.

If you feel like it, I'd sure like to hear how you're doing today. We're here for ya!!

OK, I think I'm gonna go try counting sheep again.....I got up 5376 last attempt, if only I could have hung on until 5377, I might be asleep right now!!! :lol: Just kidding, I made it all the way to 8 sheep and said F*** this non-sense!!!

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:46 pm 
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I went almost a year without suboxone before tapering off the zoloft I've taken for anxiety, and it still isn't easy. I asked my doc about stopping zoloft after being off suboxone a month and he said don't even try, now.

I cannot imagine doing them both together....although stopping lexapro and zoloft may be different.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:03 pm 
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I've been away on a fairly stressful vacation with the in-laws, but I wanted to give a quick update. After being off Lexapro for about 10 days I cautiously tried to re-start it at half the dose I was originally taking. But no go. I got the rash again. So I saw my doc yesterday and he decided to try me on Wellbutrin (Aplenzin generic, actually). It's not an SSRI like all of the other AD's I've been on, it increases the available dopamine. I had a lot of reservations because I'm not actually depressed right now, and I feel like I should save the big guns for when I really need it.
My doc explained that SSRI's actually cause more seratonin receptors to be formed, which is why you don't feel crummy right away when you stop them. I thought this was interesting because this seems to be a similar process to how opiates work - you keep taking them and build more receptors, which in turn cry out for more when you stop feeding them.
Anyway, I looked into Aplenzin (bupropion) and I lot of people say it causes weight loss, which I PRAY is true. I was concerned that if it doesn't work I will have to go back on an SSRI and I'm allergic to most of them. I mentioned to the doc that I had been on Paxil for a while, and he said he doesn't like to use it because it causes weight gain. WTF! I was on it for about a year+ during which time I gained 20lbs which I have never lost. I thought it was because I was stressed that my father was dying. Now I'm angry that an already slightly overweight woman would be given that, and even though I was packing on the pounds no one ever caught that the issue was Paxil. It's VERY upsetting to me, because as anyone who has ever struggled with weight knows, it's so hard to take off once it's been put on.


Anyway, it's only been two days and I feel great, but maybe it's to soon to be the AD. I'm also down to 2mg Sub which is also good, but I have to resist the urge to take a 2nd dose, as my doc has had me dosing 2x/day since the start. Thanks again for all your replies and PM's. Overall I am feeling much better.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 1:16 am 
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Lilly,

Thank you so much for the update. I'm SO glad that you're feeling better and that's GREAT to hear that you're down to 2mg of Suboxone.

I'm sorry to hear the sad news about your father, my thoughts and prayers are with you.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:46 am 
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I'm so happy that you are feeling better! And as long as you are, who cares why you are, right? :D

Wow....2 mg Sub already....that's wonderful. Two thumbs up, because you went through such a tough time, but you ended up making some serious progress along the way.

I cannot find where you wrote about your father, but I wanted to say I'm sorry about that too.....

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:22 am 
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Actually, I had mentioned the death of my father in reference to my experience with Paxil several years ago. But thank you for your condolences anyway, that pain never goes away.

Since I posted, I googled Paxil, and apparently weight gain is one of the top side effects, and when they discovered it the information was very slow getting to doctors. So I'm pretty pissed about that. It's kinda like being put on Sub without being told there have been zero clinical studies on getting off of it. Yay pharmaceutical companies!


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 Post subject: wellbutrin
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Hi Lily,

I too am glad to hear you're feeling better, thanks for posting an update. I have been taking wellbutrin for years (off and on) and it helps my depression tremendously. And yeah, my understanding is that "change in weight" is sometimes a side effect of wellbutrin. I did lose weight the first time I started taking it. Did you know it's also prescribed under the name "zyban" as a smoking cessation aid? Ok, good luck, I hope you don't have further problems with unwanted side effects.


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 Post subject: Paxil
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 3:36 pm 
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Hi Lillyval,

My wife has been on Paxil for almost 10 years or so and weight gain has never been discussed. Like a lot of women, she is very conscience of her weight and to me, she eats very lightly most all the time. I have not noticed any extra weight on her but maybe it's just because she is so good at not putting the wrongs things in her mouth. (except chocolate of course) Are you sure it was the Paxil that caused the weight gain last time? That's a tough one if it is the one drug that will work for you. It sucks having to make a decision between your mental health and physical appearances.

Even if it was a probable side effect she has so much benefit from the drug that she'd accept the extra pounds just to feel okay. But Paxil is one hard drug to get off of. The taper is slow and long so make sure it's the right drug choice for you.

I thought you weren't supposed to stop taking Lexapro abruptly? Luckily you came out okay.

Congrats on getting down to 2mg's. I'm right behind you at 4mg and tapering.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:35 am 
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Being bipolar type 1, just judging by your posts, I'd say you weren't manic. If you were manic (which is a form of psychosis), you'd be typing at a million miles a minute likely with an apparent belief you had some kind of supernatural power. People like that at their sickest dance on street corners naked, or think they're Jesus. It's funny when you get more than one of these people with a god-complex in a psych hospital. Things can get very interesting indeed!

Hypomania, which is an elevated mood which can also do damage but isn't delusional, is more likely than mania. But even that is something isolated to people with bipolar disorder / bipolar spectrum. And for those people, anti-deps generally send them manic / hypomanic if they're not on a mood stabiliser / anti-psychotic, like lithium or seroquel.

Kinda like what's been said, when a person comes off anti-depressants their mood swings can be quite rapid and wild, even for people without mild bipolar / bipolar spectrum.

It might be too late, but a person in that state of mind should refrain from making life changing decisions.

Give yourself time! Good luck.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 10:39 pm 
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Lots of times I get an energy rush when in withdrawal especially early on and at the tail end. I think this is what many describe as "the pink cloud". I think it is just your CNS snapping back into action. When I first got clean my therapist and Sub doctor thought that I might be bi-polar, turns out I wasn't it was just the "weird energy" (my name for it, yes I have named it :D ) that I felt.

I am on Wellbutrin and feel like it has worked for me. It can qwell hunger for some people. I have been working on building muscle (have added 20 pounds since I got clean) so this is undesirable for me.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 8:49 am 
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Thanks for the replies, guys. When I said "manic" I wasn't using it in the clinical sense. It was just weird cracking up laughing and zipping around w/tons of energy after feeling foggy and tired on Sub for so long. I agree it was just mood swings from coming off of meds abruptly.

Rule62-certain side effects don't effect everyone. If your wife is doing well on Paxil and not having any issues you have no reason for concern (unless she gets pregnant).

Autononymous - it's good to hear from you. Last time you posted you were in a tough spot caring for your Mom. How are things going?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:26 pm 
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Thanks Lily, things are certainly easier for me than they were last winter with the situation with my family. but...to tell you the truth, my depression has been really bad all year. And I really need a job, Anyway, you can send me a pm sometime if you like. YOu sound a lot better now, and that's good to hear.


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