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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 5:16 am 
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Hey guys,

I'm in a bit of a situation. This year I've had recurring depression that's been quite nasty. My doctor has said for a while that my bipolar needs long term anti-depressant treatment, as the mood stabilisers alone don't seem to have enough anti-depressant effect.

So far we have trialed a number of anti-depressants. It seems that the SNRI's, despite lifting me out of depression, have a negative effect on my addiction (ie they're known to induce periods of heavy drug use), so these are not an option.

I'm interested in knowing other people's experiences with anti-depressants while on Sub. Recently I had a positive experience with Agomelatine, which isn't released in the US. However the last couple of weeks it seems to have lost all effect, and raising the dose had little impact. With the return of depression I also had a period of drug use. It seems that these days the only time I even want to use drugs is when I fall back into depression.

What anti-depressants have people found to be effective while on Suboxone? I'm particularly interested in which ones people have found may have interacted with Sub, or sped up or slowed down their metabolism of Sub. My doctor thinks the next one we try should be Mirtazapine (Remeron or Avanza), as it is not an SSRI/SNRI and seems to be quite effective. Is anyone else on this medication?

There's also Moclebemide, a reversible MAOI, which was suggested by an addiction specialist.

What about the TCA's? Anyone have experience with them?

Thanks...

tj


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2012 12:24 pm 
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I was on Remeron for depression for about a year I was 25 (10 years ago). It did nothing for my depression, but I stayed on it because it helped me sleep at night. I have always had problems sleeping, and I finally found a med that made me sleep like a normal human being every night!

My doctor warned me when I first got on it that it would make me gain weight. I said that I'm not worried about that because I was about 10 lbs underweight to begin with, and he said, "No, I mean it will make you gain A LOT of weight". He was right, ad I gained 20 lbs on it in less than a year's time, which was a lot for me because I am very small-framed...5' 4" and 98 lbs.

I stopped taking it one day because I didn't want to gain anymore weight, and I found that I couldn't stop taking it abruptly, because I could no longer sleep without it...not even a wink. I remember staying up for multiple nights in a row with no sleep, so I started tapering instead. I got down to biting off a tiny crumb, and finally succeeded after about 6 months.

Hopefully it will help you with your depression. Just watch out for the weight gain. For what it's worth, I've never found an AD to help with my depression, and I've tried taking almost a dozen different ones...Paxil, Prozac, Effexor, Trazadone, Wellbutrin, Nortriptyline, Remeron, and a couple others I don't remember the names of. So I think I am resistant to treatment, which is why I find subs so helpful for me because they have completely eliminated my depression.

I thought maybe it was a coincidence at first, since there are some weeks that go by when I don't have depressive symptoms, but it's been months and the depression still hasn't come back. So I am staying on subs for longer than I had planned. But that just goes to show that meds affect people differently. Maybe Remeron will work for you since you are the opposite of me and you find that subs make you more depressed.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:34 pm 
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hi tear'. it's johnboy and do you remember me'. :lol: tear i no you a little. have you gave lexapro a shot? nothing really worked well for me but lexapro is a bang :lol: my doc said befor i took the lexapro that i could go in to a manic state and i did and loved it. i was a little out of control but at least i was happy and that was what i was looking for in the first place man i was down in a very deep depress- and did not think any thing would bring me out but in about 2 weeks lexapro did and still do'es and i started it about a year ago. if we are bi-poler take lexapro it can give us a little happy manic day. it took me a few weeks to get the dose right . so if i feel like i want to talk a lot or hang out with a vulger croud of nasty peaple i take a extra pill about 5 mg and talk them in to the ground :lol: i'm not really saying lexapro is fun or gets you high' but i see it helping you.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 9:43 pm 
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tear". lexapro won't give you that manic state like i think you may think it will". no it won't. you will feal more relaxed and in control. GOOD LUCK and you know me actul'y i think i'm a little manic at the moment but i am not depressed :) :lol:

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 Post subject: A NOTE FROM SLIPPER.....
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:14 pm 
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I too like taurus..have taken them all...even the lexapro that John-boy mentioned..I have suffered from severe depressionall my life even as a child...


The one thing that has helped me the most is Serequel..200mg. I take one in the am and one in the pm.

It is also good for sleep. I know you have heard of it and most likely have taken it...but just in case I thought it was
worth mentioning...

Hope you find something that works!!

Sincerely,

Slipper..aka Judy

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Thanks all for your input.

Johnboy - ye how could I forget you :lol: It's always fun when an antidepressant sends us a bit manic! Not that sustainable tho. I have been on Lexapro. From what I remember it didn't work too well. It didn't work for my sister either, and we have similar symptoms (only mine are a bit worse now from all the drugs I resorted to).

The only SNRI / SSRI's that have worked for me are effexor, pristiq, cymbalta. I think Aropax would work as well because it's worked for my sister and mother, except the sexual side-effects don't sound very fun... And the fact that SSRI's and my addiction don't mix at all.

I've been on Seroquel in the past as well, but it never really had much of an antidepressant effect on me.

It seems that I've cycled out of that depression now. It lasted a couple of weeks. I'm sure that it's just the natural cycling of my bipolar at the moment. After interferon treatment I seemed to cycle almost daily, but slowly it's settling and now seems to be fortnightly.

The problem is that these "normal" periods are always transient. I have to accept that in a week or two I'll be right back where I was.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:19 am 
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serequel nocked me on my ass'. how about abilify? it worked for me about 1 month , then i had a very bad side effect.
it works well for others that don't have a chance on other meds also. the first month i was on abilify i was the happy'st person in the world and then dysphoria set in :cry:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 2:25 pm 
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TJ....

My God...after a round of interferon you have the right to be depressed...on drugs, robbing little old ladies and voiding on the street in public!!! We were giving that medication when I was a student nurse back in 1969! We gave it what they called Z-Track...with a long long needle and medication pushed in very slow...we would numb the site of injection because it
hurt like hell....Surely they have come up with some other medicines to go along with this one in 40 years????

I don't work in hospital anymore..(((retired))) so I don't know a thing about what is going on now..but I wish you the
best with this treatment as it used to make my patients feel like shit for about a month!!!

Sincerely,,
Slipper

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:31 pm 
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Yeah Johnboy been on Abilify as well. I could probably write up a whole review book for psych medications. Those anti-psychotics are good anti-manics I've found but not the best anti-depressants.

The weird thing is I woke up the other day feeling 100%. Concerning thing is I felt maybe 120% better. So a different anti-depressant right now might actually be a bad thing.

Slipper I did 6 months of Interferon with Ribavirin last year to cure my Hep C. It was a 6 month long trip into a dark world. It worked, but the whole process seems to have made my bipolar more pronounced. My mood switches are more significant now. If bipolar is an illness that gets worse with age, then I get the feeling it added a few years to my bipolar life. But anyway, it was worth it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:50 am 
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tear it sounds right about going through change and i "hope" i don't have to be on lexapro to much longer.
today my brother said he was on it for 3 years and he notice'd my change and said if i don't stop taking it" i will end up alone.
i think he's saying i am to emotional being on it?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:08 pm 
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I've heard (from a subox doc source) that lexapro works really well with suboxone.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:06 pm 
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This is a bit of an old post now.

I've found a good combination that seems to be working for now. It's a combination of Mirtazapine / Remeron, and Agomelatine / Valdoxan. They're non-SSRI/SNRI antidepressants, and they don't seem to induce cravings for drugs, or speed up my metabolism of Sub. So maybe I'm onto a winner?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:11 am 
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[marq=right]**********GOOD FOR YOU TEEJAY**********[/marq]


I hope you DID find what you need,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
I've been SOO relieved now, since I started ADHD meds....Everything is improving.......
even taking less suboxone :wink:
I didn't think that would happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyways,
I just wanted to say , I hope it continues to work well for you ,,, and you continue to improve :wink: :wink: :wink:

[marq=right]:D :D :D GOOD LUCK :D :D :D [/marq]

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:49 pm 
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TJ - your comment about being able to write a book reminded me of a website I came across about psych meds. It's: crazymeds.com

Here's the site's intro:
"Welcome to Crazy Meds, where you can learn what’s good, what’s bad, what’s interesting, and what’s plain weird and funny about the medications used to treat depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, epilepsy, migraines, anxiety, neuropathic pain, or whatever psychiatric and/or neurological condition you might have. The information on this site is to help you work with your doctor(s) to find the right treatment options. Too many of us get nothing more than 15-minute appointments with overworked doctors or nurse-practitioners, so we need all the help we can get. We need to talk to our prescribers about the best medication1 to treat our conditions, and not the most profitable ones, or the cheapest ones2."


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:47 pm 
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tearj3rker wrote:
Hey guys,

I'm in a bit of a situation. This year I've had recurring depression that's been quite nasty. My doctor has said for a while that my bipolar needs long term anti-depressant treatment, as the mood stabilisers alone don't seem to have enough anti-depressant effect.

So far we have trialed a number of anti-depressants. It seems that the SNRI's, despite lifting me out of depression, have a negative effect on my addiction (ie they're known to induce periods of heavy drug use), so these are not an option.

I'm interested in knowing other people's experiences with anti-depressants while on Sub. Recently I had a positive experience with Agomelatine, which isn't released in the US. However the last couple of weeks it seems to have lost all effect, and raising the dose had little impact. With the return of depression I also had a period of drug use. It seems that these days the only time I even want to use drugs is when I fall back into depression.

What anti-depressants have people found to be effective while on Suboxone? I'm particularly interested in which ones people have found may have interacted with Sub, or sped up or slowed down their metabolism of Sub. My doctor thinks the next one we try should be Mirtazapine (Remeron or Avanza), as it is not an SSRI/SNRI and seems to be quite effective. Is anyone else on this medication?

There's also Moclebemide, a reversible MAOI, which was suggested by an addiction specialist.

What about the TCA's? Anyone have experience with them?

Thanks...

tj
[font=Arial Black] [/font] [align=justify]


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:29 pm 
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I take Zoloft at 50mg and traz at 100mg at note... Seem to be fine...


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 9:59 pm 
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As an antidepressant (and I've tried MANY), I've found that Welbutrin works the best for me as far as keeping my mood fairly even and keeping my anxiety in check. I still get 0.5mg of klonopin (only 5 per months) for when my anxiety starts to creep in, but it's a heck-of-a-lot better than the 2mg klonopin 3x daily I used to take when my anxiety frequently put me in the ER in full blown panic attacks hyperventilating.
I think Elavil worked ok, but it was hard to tell back then because the lamictal I was taking as a mood stabilizer made me really slow and foggy.
Zoloft, paxil, & Lexapro all made had side effects and didn't help my mood or anxiety. All the antipsychotics (Seroquel, zyprexa, and abilify) literally made me crazey, I was an unrecognizable mess on those meds:(

Suboxone, welbutrin, and klonopin is the best mix I've found so far, maybe not perfect, but good enough:)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 1:41 am 
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A lot has happened since I started this thread many years ago.

But I will summarise briefly where I'm at now.

I've stopped taking Pristiq (Desvenlafaxine) and switched to Brintellix (Vortioxetine). Overall Brintellix has been great. It doesn't speed up my metabolism of buprenorphine like Pristiq / Cymbalta / Effexor did, and seems to hold its anti-depressant effect when others have worn off. It doesn't feel as "strong" as Pristiq, but it makes up for it by being more transparent. I seem to think with more clarity on it. Only issue I have with it is the price.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:32 am 
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Hi TJ,
It's great to see you here on the site and doing well. When I was around last time you were going through a very rough patch, and I'm happy you've come through unscathed.

Is Brintellix available in the U.S.? Under another name maybe? Not sure what it is, and I'm well aquatinted with most AD's, lol

I also found Effexor (precursor of Pristiq) very effective, but the sexual side effects were unacceptable, and I read that they could become permanent. Have you ever heard of that?

Take care,
Lilly

Edit: looked it up and found it listed as, Vortioxetine, an atypical AD
Wikipedia said:
Vortioxetine significantly improved objective and subjective measures of cognitive function in adults with recurrent Major Depression Disorder. :)
Incidence of sexual dysfunction is reportedly higher in patients taking vortioxetine than in patients taking placebos, but lower than in patients taking venlafaxine (Effexor)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:13 pm 
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TeeJay wrote:
This is a bit of an old post now.

I've found a good combination that seems to be working for now. It's a combination of Mirtazapine / Remeron, and Agomelatine / Valdoxan. They're non-SSRI/SNRI antidepressants, and they don't seem to induce cravings for drugs, or speed up my metabolism of Sub. So maybe I'm onto a winner?


Rameron may be the key to battle my insomnia?? I take Ambien for sleep now but that's stuff doesn't work to well if you take it every night!! I now need it, to sleep :( I also want to try something else new. I get a little bummed out at times, but who don't???Life is a ball of fun!!


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