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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Hey guys. Now first of all I am very well read about the half life situation of methadone, and realize it's different for everyone. But i am under the impression from what I've read on this site(and many others) that the typical time to wait to take a dose of Suboxone is 72hrs if you're at 40mgs. I was at 41 mgs daily before I decided to switch. The only bad thing is that I double dosed on saturday(my last dose day) so i took 80mgs on my last dose. But was maintained at 40mgs I'm currently on day three of no methadone, and not feeling too bad. Now really what i want to find out is will I be okay to take my suboxone tommarow, on the fourth day of no methadone? They say wait untill you're in full withdrawls, I'm withdrawling but not anything crazy. But I was never one to complain about them, just tough them out so perhaps I have a higher tolorance to them. Everyone is different, and that makes this proscess all the more tedious. Also I was wondering, when they say "four days" after you last dose, what exactly does that mean. I took my last dose at about 9am on Saturday morning, should I now count all of saturday as one day? It starts breaking down out of your system as soon as you take the stuff so I imagine you would count that. In that case I'm already over 72hrs now. To be clear, I was maintained at 41mgs daily, but took a dose of 80mgs on Saturday morning 9pm. It is now Wednsday night at about 9pm. So any thoughts guys, find was looking for a response in the next few hours, I know I will not be getting much sleep tonight and would very much like to remedy that. Inclosing I want to say this cycle of opiate addiction is a messed up situation. But I feel that I have the right mind set to get through it. Staying active seems to help me lots. Many walks at the park with my dog, and gardening. I'll keep this in mind when I want to get off suboxones as well. Just like all of you should. :) Good luck all!


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:14 am 
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Hi & welcome to the forum. Hopefully I got to your question in time to be of some help.

When doing your Suboxone induction, the length of time off of opiates is not as important as the level of withdrawals you're experiencing. So maybe google up a COWS worksheet and score yourself to see if you are in moderate withdrawals before you take your first dose.

Of course, with methadone there is the tolerance issue, but if you've been at 41mgs for a while it seems like you should be ok. We've had members induct from a higher maintainence dose than that and be fine, but they did make sure they were off the methadone for long enough first.

I know it's not a straight yes-or-no answer, but that's the best I've got. Good luck.

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 Post subject: not necessarily
PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 9:46 am 
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Hi,

I have to say that I had a similar experience....I was at 75mg methadone when making the switch over and I was day 6 before I took Sub...but only had a 7 on the COWS. I really only had very minimal w/d symptoms...so even though everyone says wait until you are about a 13 on the COWS after 6 days for me I was sick of waiting....So I dosed at day 6 with 2mg subutex. waited 20 min..and nothing...so within that hour took another 2mg...then later took more...took a total of 10mg the first day. Then the second day I was told to take the total from the first day and dose with that in the am...so day 2 on Sub I took 10mg.

I ended up needing 16mg of Sub for about 2 months, then I got down to 6mg and that's where I'm at now. I started Sub Nov 2010.

I think you'll be ok. Just take 2mg and wait 30 min and see how you feel. If no pwd then you're good to go.

I was terrified because I didn't have moderate w/d...but I think I could have started at day 3 even. And I was on twice as much methadone as you when making the change.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 10:29 am 
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Ahh man. Yeah guys that helps a bit. I appreciate your responses so quickly. Feeling pretty shitty this morning, but actually got about 6-7hrs sleep last night. Now, I must make it perfectly clear that I'm going on Soboxone, not Subutex. So I have to contednd with the DEAs stupid little saftey device so people won't shoot the things up. You know, the naloxone is why I have to wait so damn long for the methadone to metabolize from my system. What my main question was in the last pot was can I count the day of my last dose, as a day? I took my last dose at 9am on Saturday morning. It's now about 10am on Wednsday morning. So should I assume that all of that rest of that saturday is one day? I mean it starts metabolizing immediatly after you take the dose so I would assume so. Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Hey guys! :) So here is the update. I took a soboxone at about 3pm today, after being in more then moderate withdrawl, just to be sure I toughede it out untill the 90hr mark after my last methadone dose. Noithing happend when I took my first 8mg film. So I waited another hour and took a second film at 4pm, it's not about 5 after 5Pm and I feel MUCH better. No withdrawl symptoms except for the fact that my lower back is still KILLING me. But I figure that will go away after I adjust to my new meds. Something else though, I feel...or felt rather...kinda strange but in a good way. The buprenorphine is certainly a different beat then methadone. I usually get energy from methadone, yet am always tired and sedated. With these subs, I feel energy, and am very talkative, yet it's not at all the same feeling as what methadone gave me. Doesn't even feel like an opiate! But the kappa opiod drugs are very strange as it goes anyway. Oh by the way I forgot to mention i do feel slight nausua, but I haven't been eating too much the past few days, and noithing at all today so I'm munching on some fruit now(Michigan Cherries, yum!) I'm sure in a few days I'll adjust fully. But all and all it was a successful transition! I was quite concerned about percipitaed withdrawl, but perhaps overly concerned to a point, on account of all the horror stories I've read about them. But all is well with me, no pain no gain eh? lol thanks to all you who replied back, and I look forward to communicating more with the rest of you as I start my suboxone treatment. Have a good one :)


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 Post subject: Out of woods
PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 9:28 am 
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Cutty, it sounds as though you are fine. I knew you were on Suboxone, not Subutex and the naloxone is so quickly metabolized that it is not supposed to affect us...but I was fearful of it myself...and partially why my dr put me on subutex.

You were pretty brave to take an 8mg film the first time! I was so afraid even after 6 days off methadone that i took only 2mg of Sub at first....

I bet you will do ok on 12mg if you'd been on 40mg of methadone for a while...I had to take 16mg of sub for about 2 months as i said but now down to 6mg and trying to go lower.

I had some nausea initially...off and on for 2 weeks. I could NOT eat the fist week on Sub. I'd try...was eating healthy and making sure I got good nutrients and enough to give me energy. I also had a headache to contend with for 2 weeks but that also went away.

I think you will like the Sub so much more than methadone (I assumed you were at a methadone clinic? but maybe not) as a replacement therapy. I have more motivation, I can feel...I was so blunted with methadone in every way possible.

I never felt "high" like some people have described when they first start sub....so this energy you feel is probably because you are used to feeling fairly apathetic possibly on methadone. Anyway, all of it should stabilize out...and you'll just live your life! Hopefully it will be like that for you.

I've had some issues with the sub brand....the teva didn't seem to have any potency and i felt w/d on it...then the roxane felt better but i still had a time where I felt in w/d and had a very severe lower back ache which I rarely have happen....then this batch of Roxane seems super potent. I'm wiped out on 6mg. I think I can go to 4mg the way I feel now. who knows if it is really the medication itself or what...I'm not obsessing over how I feel...I just noticed it and then matched it up with the med...

I would give you this suggestion, and a suggestion only...but once you get stabilized...a month or two....then try to get to the lowest dose possible that you can be on and not have cravings or w/d...I think personally that it is better for us to be as low as we can be without suffering. Pain management is a different ballgame..I'm just talking about Sub use for opiate replacement only.

Good luck.


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:21 pm 
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Hey yeah thanks alot. It's day three and I feel fine. I actually did leave the methadone clinic, because I hated going everyday(obviously) and it was too expensive, not to mention the gas to drive there everyday. I have great insurance so I get my suboxones paid for completely, not even a co-pay. I know I'm lucky as hell. But yeah, the first few days I had some nausua, and my appetite was decreased. I also noticed some heart palpitations, but that could be due to smoking marijuana. Never happend on the Done though.(NOTE: Although I am a very strong advocate of medical marijuana, and although I have found it an immensley valueable tool in my recovery, and overall well being, it's not for everyone. I use it in a very controlled, and responsible fashion. It can be a trigger for relapse in some more relapse-prone people. Everyone is different, and I do not reccomend any recovering addict start useing marijuana as part of their therapy. You could talk to your doctor about it, but most of them are very close minded on the subject.) But I belive thats because I had a huge appetite on methadone, and gained some weight, like most people do. But yeah, I am certainly noticing some changed from not just being ON subs, but being OFF methadone. That stuff will sedate the shit out ya! I couldn't sit for more then a half hour without nodding out, like I was on dope still, and thats what some people thought. It just leaves a haze over you it feels like. These suboxones donb't even feel like an opiate. More like...an opiate stimulant(witch it has been shown to produce stimulant effects). Also I understand that the longer you take them, the higher chance you have to stay off drugs forever, and have far less craving, as well as no depression like is typical with opiate addicts after they stop useing. The Subs apparently repair your neurotransmitters. It's very interesting to be. Anyway I'll end this post now before it goes on any longer, thanks for your input guys! It's greatly appreciated and won't be forgotten! :)


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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 1:25 pm 
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By the way, I am supposed to be taking Three, 8mg films, three times a day. So thats what I've been taking for now. I know I can get by with less, so I'm gonna talk with my doctor next time I go, and we will figure out a detox plan. I think thats a high dose for a 23year old to be on already. It's a crazy situation at times. But it's getting much better as I put more effort into it. Thank God I have the mental aspect of my addiction totally f'ing destroyed :) But I wanna give the subs time to work for me so, not too soon. But the sooner, the easier I understand, so it's a tossup you know? But yeah, Thanks China Girl! Hope all is well with whatever you're doing in life as well! :)


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 27, 2011 9:13 am 
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Thanks for your story, it made me feel a bit better as my last dose of Meth is this Friday. Then Monday at 12:30 I will get my script for Suboxone. I have been on 40 mil for 6 years then dropped to 30 mil of meth for 2 years now thing else ,and have worked my recovery, my clinic just got the Sub program, I would love to hear how this is working for you.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:59 pm 
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Laura, I've been on the subs for about 3 and a half months now, and I am feeling GREAT! Seriosly. Oh my God it's a world away from the methadone. I feel normal now, not all sedated all day and high. Thats why alot of people say that suboxone doewsn't work for them, or they don't wanna leave the clinic for this or that reason, but it's just that they haven't decided to stop getting high. Because there are no two ways about it, methadone gets you high. And the fact that you can raise your dose up as high as you want, makes it worse of a situation. Now, methadone people don't strat in on me, because I was at the clinic for a few years myself, and it took me through the inital phase, getting off the dope. It's helped me get my life back, and I realize how much it helps people. But if we are honest, it's only one step better then doing dope. So thats my opinion, lemme know how things are Laura, I hope you're doing okay. Just remember, opiate addiction is 95% mental, you can do it :)


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 Post subject: Cutty
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:04 pm 
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Hi Cutty! Thank you for the response. Came at a good time as today was my last meth dose. OMG the weekend the sickness will start. Monday Subs. I am excited to get on the subs and I agree with you, you have to be READY and committed to tis for Subs or meth for that matter to be effective. So glad you are doing good, makes me feel better. :)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:37 pm 
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You said today is your last dose? That's great, you're getting there. I just wanted to say I hope your weekend goes well - or as well as it can under the circumstances. Please keep us updated on how you're doing. If you need to "journal" about how you're feeling, then post as much as you need to. That's what we're here for. Be well. You can make it through this. When it gets tough, remember, it's only temporary. :)

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 Post subject: Thank You!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:29 pm 
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Thanks hatmaker. I am definitely going to do that. I will start a new thread tomorrow I think. I am scared to be honest. I know what is ahead the next few days, I have to stay focused on the light at the end of that tunnel. I am so glad you all are here, even though we have never met. Addicts just know.


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