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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:40 am 
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I know this has been asked alot but i think my situation may be different then some and just wanted to be sure.

I been using for about 8 years, hydros,perks,roxy,oxy and methadone just whatevers around. did morph once but never daltiud,opana. i've already decided that i need to make the switch but im forced to do it on the street because the only sub dr within 30miles was busted for dealing pills himself. i have done tons and tons of research but still left with a small concern. i know that it tells you to wait about a good 24 hours on shorter acting stuff like the hydros,perks etc.. but i dont know if thats supose to means 24 hours after last dose or 24 hours into WD. that being said along with me "thinking" my metabolisim has slowed down a bit i would rather just ask my question like this..

If i been taking about 60mg of hydrocodone at 8pm every night Mon-Fri then would i be safe taking suboxen Sat at 8pm or give it a few more hours or just wait till sunday 8pm when im feeling like shit ? I've been lucky and have never been in a full widthdraw (i think the longest i have went without is about 2 days other) but usually if i dont dose at 8pm then sometime around 2-3am my stomach is growling and hard to sleep and then the next day i'll have the shits a little and catch myself sneezing a few times but i dont think ive ever recalled sweating a ALOT or anything other. i wasnt sure if the sweating was a must to be considered a mild widthdraw or not which is where i would have to be to start the subox, correct ?

Important to note that i usually dont dose untill around 8pm each night because i dont get up till mid afternoon and i can usually manage not having anything for the first few hours after im up hence why all this 8pm nonsense.


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 Post subject: COWS
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:59 pm 
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CLINICAL OPIATE WITHDRAWAL SCALE (COWS)
http://www.mc.uky.edu/equip-4-pcps/docu ... ale_68.pdf
When induced is dependant on level of withdrawal, not when the last dose was taken. Need to be in moderate withdrawal in order to avoid precipiated withdrawal with the first sub dose. We do it in the office to get a second pair of eyes on the person, rather than them trusting their own senses. Most people tend to rate their symptoms much higher than an independant rater. good luck PAX


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 Post subject: Time Frame
PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:01 pm 
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Hi Shultz28,

Like the good doctor said, it's about being in moderate withdrawal before you induce on Suboxone. IMO only, you should be safe 24 hours after your last dose. But if you don't feel any withdrawal effects after that then I suggest you wait until you do or you're in for some more pain than you'd like.

What I really want to tell you is, think very hard about going on to Suboxone. By only taking 60 mg's of hydrocodone nightly you probably won't have to suffer much withdrawal effects at all. Yes, you'll have the regular symptoms like sneezing, insomnia, etc. But nothing you can't handle. The reason I say this is because Suboxone is a very strong drug, even at low doses. If you end up taking it you'll increase your tolerance tenfold. Why would you want to make your addiction worse? What you really need is some recovery program to get you off all substances. Have you ever tried NA or AA? There is also Rational Recovery or just go see an addiction specialist to help you get going in the right direction.

Why do you think you need to be on Suboxone? Is it only to not have to face the withdrawal symptoms? Those won't be bad as I said previously. It just seems to me that you're trying to swat a fly with a bulldozer. I invite you to read as many posts as possible here to get an idea of what you're planning on getting into. Plus, buying it off the street is nowhere near recovery. All it would be is exchanging a weak drug for a very strong one. You won't even get high off it. Maybe just a little in the beginning but later on it's just having to take a drug every day.

Now that you've had the lecture, welcome here! Please think hard about this and read a lot of posts before making the decision.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:03 pm 
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I agree w/ Rule 1000%. You do not want to get a physical dependance on sub. WHat if one day your suboxone street connection cant come thru.?? You will be UTTRLY SCREWED... Because, since if you are on suboxone, if you can ONLY get more pills, they will not work for a few days 3-4...BC Sub. blocks the effects of other opiates EVEN HEROIN! Trust me on this, It will happen. Just a matter of time. Have you considered tapering your pills??????. I did it off Heroin. NOT easy, practically IMPOSSIBLE I hear, but my WILL to lead a free life made me do it.. ha ha. I wish you luck, I believe with all my being, YOU CAN manage this WITHOUT suboxone...Ugh.. Read the stopping suboxone forum...... That oughta scare the%^&*(*& out of you and if id dosent, I will be reading your sad suboxone story months down the road. Though, I would never wish that on anyone... Bless you...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 5:03 pm 
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Hi Shultz,

I debated on whether to respond to this because I really don't want you to feel like you are being beat over the head from a bunch of addicts...you know, the pot calling the kettle black kind of thing. Seriously, nobody is thinking you are a bad person for wanting to find an easier route to quitting the hydro's. It's just that most of us here have been going through this for quite awhile, and we know how strong this medicine is. I was a hydro addict too. The difference is I was popping anywhere from 60-100mg's at a time all day long every day. I would take my last dose before bed and wake up in the morning in full-blown WD. It sucked... If you haven't ever been in real withdrawal from not having your pills then you probably don't need the subs. Really, the only thing it is good for is keeping those physical withdrawals away. In the meantime you are going to be forming a pretty healthy NEW addiction to the subs. As sweet said above, there is no back and forth with this medicine. Once you start taking it you have to have it every day, if you run out you will be in hell. Of course it is possible to get off of it but you HAVE to taper slowly or else you will be in for a world of hurt. I know it is hard to get past the mental addiction even if you don't have a very bad physical addiction, but trust me. You will still be in the same boat with the subs. Eventually you will have to quit taking them if you want to be sober, and you will have to go through everything you are going through now with the added problem of your tolerance being sky high and being in extreme WD. If you can POSSIBLY tough it out and just quit everything now you really need to. I hate to see anyone wind up worse off than they were when they started because they didn't have the right information. Please go to the stopping suboxone forum here on this site and read a few threads. These are not exaggerations...jumping from a high dose of bupe is hell.

Obviously though, if you decide to go ahead with your plans don't feel like you can't come here for support. I really hope you understand that this is me trying to help you, not beat you up about your decisions.


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 Post subject: A Little Too Harsh?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 2:21 pm 
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I hope we didn't scare him off the site by saying he shouldn't be on Suboxone. An addict is an addict and I felt the same as him back when my habit was only six pills a day of Norco. No way in hell could I stop taking those. And like him, I too was able to go most days w/o ingesting any because I was so busy at work. That gave me something really tasty to look forward to when I got home. But like most all addicts I couldn't stay at that amount. Same thing when I was taking only 1½ or 2 a day. At that time I still considered myself addicted to them. Eventually I, like most, hit the magic number of pills and sought help.

So please Shultz, don't leave because the information we gave you didn't sit right. You know deep down what is best for you so I hope you come back before anything really bad happens. The world you're in is only temporary. No addict alive can continue abusing opiates all their life. Or maybe you're not an addict and can walk away from it w/o a second thought. I surely hope so.

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