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 Post subject: And so I try again.....
PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:46 pm 
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As the title states, here I am: Trying again. As long as I can remember I have always been an "addict". Having a blanket as a child, cigarettes, marijuana, cocaine, then opiates. Looking back, it always seemed that I needed something to stop my mind from racing all the time. Something I could focus on, otherwise my mind was always everywhere.

Flash forward a few years to now: My habit has gotten me spending near $1500 a month on drugs, My DOC (Drug of Choice) has become (I should say WAS, I don't WANT it anymore, just slip up and USE it) Fentanyl patches. Smoking up to 150 MCG of Fentanyl (I know, I can't believe a 120 pound guy can do this and live, if you call this living).

I have had two semi-successful sober periods in the last two years. And by successful, I mean I was able to be clean and feel good without anything.... for awhile. Then like so many of us, I thought I could CONTROL my addiction. What a thought, CONTROL.

Let me back slide a bit, and tell you that my father was an alcoholic and last year he took his own life. While I watched him struggle and ultimately fail with his addiction I always had a level head about HIS addiction. I knew what it was that HE needed to get clean and stay clean. I knowe all the right things, and that he was always going to be an addict and HE was NEVER going to be able to CONTROL his addiction, buy having just 1 drink. Funny how I could never see MYSELF that way. I just always felt "stronger" than him, mentally.

When he took his life, I actually used it as an excuse to get clean, and NOT to use. I went on one last bender, and then took a sharp course to sobriety. Not only did I use my father as an excuse to "be better" but I also had a job opportunity that I could NOT pass up. This job required passing a drug test.

I was able to quit everything, sans some OTC sleeping meds (Not smoking POT seemed harder to me mentally and I couldn't sleep and nothing was appetizing ) I passed my drug test. I got the job. I decided that since I was strong enough to do it all on my own (granted this was the second time) that I was also strong enough to CONTROL my addiction. I still hadn't learned my lesson.

Low and behold, now I was making A LOT more money (I in fact more than doubled my salary) so there was no issue yet. My tolerance was getting really high, and I was actually scared that I was going to kill my liver from all the acetaminophen in the pills. Then I found Fentanyl. at first it was just putting on the patches and getting a nice ride for three days... then they only lasted two days. Then I read somewhere you could cut them open and smoke them. That is where I met the DEVIL.

Now, after I went through the 10 patches I could get in a month, it would take a script of 120 pills over three days just to NOT puke my guts out.

All this time, knowing that I was neglecting my family, which I love with all my heart and thank God, they love me. Bless my wife. She has "caught" me many times, and always believed me when I would cry and tell her that it was over and I would clean up. I always wanted too, just couldn't make it stick. It's easier for me to have resolve when I am not feeling well, but once I started feeling better, I felt as I could control it.

These last few months as I have struggled with a course of action that would help me clean up, I have realized that one thing that helps me most is COMMUNICATION. Once I started talking with my wife (and others) and she started to realize that as an addict I had little choice in the matter it got easier to make better decisions.

So, here I am... Trying again. I have slipped twice in the last two months, but each time not as bad as I keep talking with my wife and realizing that not facing LIFE is not making it go away. I want my life back, I want my family back, I want to live, but most of all I want to be happy. I realize that being HIGH is NOT happiness. I have also realized that sliding back is not the end of the world, but giving up hope is. As long as you have hope, you have HOPE.

I just ended a week bender on Fentanyl again, although I can say that after the first night, I hated every minute of it. Like other posters, I can't go to a Sub Ox doc and sad to say though I can find subs on the street. The first time I tried to get off opiates, I did go to a doctor but soon realized his whole goal was to make the money for himself that I was spending on the street. I have been well read on Suboxone after one time sending myself into precipitated WDs (OMG, this will make the strong person fold like a piece of paper).

I have started back on Subs at 4 mg per day, dosing once. Within a week I try to go down to 2mg and stay there to stabilize. I have also had some good luck with Thomas' recipe (http://www.drugs.com/forum/featured-con ... 35169.html) helping with PAWS during the taper and finally the jump off.

I am hoping that this time, as long as I take all the things that worked my first few times coming off (I always could find ways to ease the physical symptoms, which I thought were going to be the hardest) but never prepared myself to deal with the "meeting life on life's terms" as so elegantly by Dr. Junig. I have decided that this time, keeping an open line of communication, not only when I was feeling down, but more importantly when I was feeling great (I think I have mild Bi-Polar disorder but have been doing drugs for so long i am unsure what is drugs and what is body chemistry).

As I have said, I am a creature of habit. I have also decided that I may not be able to fight what I am, but that I can successfully replace BAD habits with good ones. I will try to stay active again in the community, and with friends (You just wake up one morning and realize that you have no friends, only people that you do drugs with). I have also resolved to try and keep sharing my experiences with others and reading about others experiences. Maybe I won't feel like such a loner and get depressed.

Well, that's my life in a nut shell. I hope that one day I can say that this was only a small part of my life and not the majority of it. I am doing it for my kids. I am doing it for my wife. But most importantly, I am doing it for me.

I may always be an addict, but I WILL NOT always be addicted.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 25, 2014 7:48 pm 
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I have to throw it out there... with all the misery that active addiction has caused you, you aren't considering taking a medication that has the potential to remove opioid dependence from your life?

My problem with 'control' is that if I truly have control, why would I not use today? If I can control my use, I'll stop TOMORROW.

I've tried, over the years, to understand how the steps 'work' from a scientific perspective. I was unable to stop opioids despite trying over and over... until I had the realization, after discussing the steps with a psychiatrist, that I was NOT controlling ANYTHING. I suddenly realized that all of the 'control' was an illusion; that I could stop for a day or a week or a month, but that as soon as I looked at my 'success', I would think that I deserved a reward. And since I had control, why would I pass on the reward?

It was all a catch-22 head trip.... where 'control' gave me permission to do the same thing over and over.

Consider a new approach-- the realization that you will never 'control' a drug like fentanyl.... and therefore your only option is to stay the F away from it. 'Confidence' is the enemy. Once I saw that the drug 'had' me, I wanted nothing to do with it. The hard part was avoiding that cocky feeling that I COULD control it-- which would give me permission to use.

Just an alternative perspective...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:13 am 
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Thank you so much for your reply!

You are in fact the reason I decided to post this forum as your video of meeting Life on Life's Terms really hit home.

I would also like to clarify that I feel exactly they way that you suggested.... I really have NO CONTROL and that I was always fooling myself into thinking that this time would be different. I totally agree with you. In fact, almost every word rings true. What I meant by my post it that, HOPEFULLY, this time I don't let myself be fooled into thinking I am SAFE. In fact, this has been the first time in a LONG time that there has been some Fentanyl available to me and I have had no desire to go and get it. Other than the few patches that got me off my path again. I am not fooled and I know it's always easier to remember to say no when the pain is still fresh in your mind. But what I hope is different this time is my decision to follow your advice Dr Junig.. If i can stay talking about it with others, maybe the person I try to show the world will not succumb to the person I am when I think no one is watching. Maybe , at least in the beginning, if I can't keep myself honest, i can use the encouragement of other to help keep me "honest".

I have been trying to find information about my medical insurance and providers in my area to at least entertain the idea of at least a few years on Suboxone. I mean, in the very least, it took me years to get to this point, to think I can reverse it in a few days, weeks, or months, is just ludicrous.
I live in a very rural part of South Carolina (The buckle of the Bible belt) and there are not many forward thinkers as least in the way of addiction being a life long disease to treat, but more as a habit to break. Even if my insurance will cover it (They didn't before, but that was before I knew about pre-authorization) I am not sure that there is even a Dr. that has the mentality to really look at this from my view. In fact, there are only two Dr's in my town that prescribe Subs and there is a waiting list to see them. I am also looking into other towns (Up to an hour away) and even methadone maintenance.

I am open to all ideas, I have have finally prescribed to the idea that I must become completely humble about my problem to become scared enough of it to not let it fool me into thinking I have control. Because, like you said: "Because I have control of my issue, I'll use today and quit tomorrow"... Well Tomorrow is today, and I realize that I have never had control.... I may not have hit ROCK BOTTOM as most would call it; I have sacrificed so much.

So, again: I wanted to thank you, Dr Junig, for your reply. I know my grammar may not convey exactly what I am trying to say, but in essence I agree with your theories. From what I have studied and experienced, you seem to be spot on with your ideas. I wish there were more out there that could view a problem from a different angle.

I am glad to be a part of these forums, and like you, maybe I can use my experiences to not only help someone else out, but to help remind myself of where I was, and where I want to go.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:46 pm 
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After thinking about what you said, I felt that I did need to add at least for the sake of argument, that at least one reason I feel Suboxone for life may (And I say "may" as I obviously DO NOT HAVE ALL or even many of the answers) not be for me: I tend to use the Suboxone as a crutch to be able to use again. At least I have in the past. I would stabilize after a binge, and after a few weeks of feeling good and getting down to 1MG or even 0.5MG of Sub that I could use again, as long as I had a few Subs to come back to earth on.

For me, I need to be scared out of my mind of WDs. Having Subs always lessened that fear. I ahve learned over the past few months that every time I try to stabilize or try to "game" the system I learn a valuable, if not painful, lesson of how inexact of a science (at least with my limited knowledge) this whole process is. One time I sent myself into Precipitated WDs and I am completely fearful of that situation again.

I am learning that the only true way to feel good (I mean after all isn't that what we all want?) is to stay true to the plan.... and maybe I am talking myself into the direction of being on treatment for awhile if not indefinitely. So maybe just even getting this out, and in the public is what I need. Maybe What I need is someone to tell me that I am not a smart as I think I am.

This is all part of the process Dr. J talks about in getting to be humble.

So, that WAS my reason.... maybe moving forward it won't be my reason to use anymore but my motivation to stay on the medication. Maybe my whole issue was that I still saw myself as a junkie and addict because I was still taking an opiate. Maybe, well not maybe, but I NEED to adjust my attitude to that as I am treating a chronic condition.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:26 pm 
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Hi,
When I read your story it scares the s--t out of me!! Now, thats a good thing for me, I always look for similarities when people share. I am worried that you, my friend, might not be around to enjoy your family. It sounds to me you are one "binge" away from leaving this earth. I honestly say that when I read your story it makes me cringe on the prospect of you being dead. Now, I also hear you say you are coming to realize that you need to do things differently. Well, yes, for sure, please consider getting on suboxone with no immediate time-table to be off of it. Get to a dose that takes away your cravings and move on with your life and family in a positive direction. Sorry, I feel like I am preaching. Obviously its your choice, but why not treat the addiction. From there you can get a support group together and be free of being on your DOC. Please take care of yourself and keep posting.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 4:26 pm 
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@JustDoIt4you: Thank you for your reply! I, in no way, take you for preaching.... Heck, maybe preaching is what it need. And I do feel that I am one binge away from kicking the bucket.

Maybe when I posted, I may have glorified it too much, or made it sound like I had it all figured out.... in truth: I decided to share my true feelings as a start to being humble about my problem and acknowledging that I have a problem.

It was not my intention to sound as if I have any answers or that anything I have done on my path to point was the right thing to do. The only good that came from my last binge was the realization that I had NO MORE left in me. I feel as if I have spent 8 of my 9 lives and I do not plan on wasting this one.

I am not saying I wont slip again. I know myself to well, but I also know that as long as I keep talking about how POWERLESS I truly am at CONTROLLING (I do use this word very lightly and sarcastically) my addiction by myself. I am blessed in the fact that I have a wife that is trying to help and understand my addiction. She has never been addicted to anything by cigarettes and before could not understand why I would keep relapsing. She felt as if I loved the drugs more than the kids or her.

My intentions on this site are:
1) Become completely open and honest about my addiction and my powerlessness to say NO (at least at this point). I DO hope to learn the tools I need in order to make this a long term success

2) Talk with other about my struggles. Not only to learn about my own addiction, but just maybe I can share enough that someone like me will read and make the same conscious effort to become involved in their own recovery.

TL;DR:

Maybe my first post was written in the wrong tone, but I want you guys to know that I have given myself over to the notion that there is no control. At least not the control I am trying which is to control the drug..... The only control I can hope to learn is that I can't control the drug use, but I hope to learn how to control myself from using drugs.
I am sick and tired of being sick and tired.

I thank each and everyone for replying and I will continue to read and reap knowledge. Please, everyone, feel like you can be frank and straight to the point... I do not have thin skin, and sometimes the hard things to hear are the things we need to hear the most.

I just want to reiterate that I have no intention of learning to control how to use opiates (other than maybe suboxone) and I have no ideas that I will be clean in 4 weeks, 4 months, or 4 years. This time I am NOT going to rush it and I am very open to the idea that if it takes 1 MG of sub a day for life to keep me alive and with my kids then God Dang It so be it.... But at this point I just do see that as being a viable alternative to me no matter how much I want it to be. But I am not closed to the idea, just I also have to look at it from my situation with insurance, the State, local doctors, etc....

I AM OPEN TO ALL IDEAS :)

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 8:44 pm 
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i agree with justdoit4u - you desperately need to get into a program ASAP...and i highly recommend suboxone..

but to be frank and to the point, the things you are talking about gradually learning, you need to pound those points home right away!

you are either in recovery or in active addiction, there is no in between.

it can be scary making that choice but its really life or death. once you choose recovery, you need to SAFEGUARD yourself from relapse...you cant be uncertain whether or not you'll be clean next week. you need to call a sub doc and get in as soon as possible....but as soon as you hang up with them you need to call a counseling group and get into weekly counseling(they may want you in twice a week to start, which is common for addiction counseling) that is part of recovery for most people...not everybody agrees that it is a must, but believe me, you have such a better understanding (and ultimately a better chance at sobriety) with it....then you need to find as many group meetings as you can fit into your schedule(counselor can help finding them) and get to know thoase people and gain their support...and most importantly, you HAVE TO CHANGE YOUR LIFESTYLE! from the people who negatively influence you, to your daily routines...ANYTHING that you had to do with while you were getting high has to go! youmay miss this stuff at first but after a few months you'll be so happy with your new lifestyle, that you won't miss any of it.

good luck and God bless man
i really hope you dive into recovery ASAP. your life really does depend on it

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 9:43 pm 
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@He-Reigns, thank you for your reply!

Your advice has been taken. I think there are three (may have stated two previously) doctors in my area that can subscribe suboxone but I think there is a multi-month waiting list. I will not take that as an excuse and I will get myself on a list, I just think there are so many things wrong with a system that has people waiting to get help... but it is what it is.

The biggest thing for me to succumb to is groups... I just don't like groups... I know its part of my therapy and talking with someone will help educate and keep me sober, I just hate groups. Not that I am saying I won't go to one, I am just saying at this moment I have a big fear of this part of the recovery. I do realize that I will need to do many things that are going to be uncomfortable or even painful in order to be successful... I will just have to do it..

Like I said, this time I am in it and I want to be successful.

Until I get into a program of my own, I have a steady supply of Suboxone that I can get. Enough for me to have around 2-4MG per day/per month. This is great during the induction phase, but after a week or so I have usually stabilized at this level , dosing once a day, mid-morning.

Maybe if I had my own I could find a slightly higher dose that kept me from craving, without putting myself or family or friend(?) at risk.

Thanks again for posting a reply, every bit of encouragement helps. It makes me feel good that people would take time out of there lives and problems just shoot me some encouragement. Thank you all.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:15 pm 
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I was wondering how are you doing? Any updates? Hope you are fine and good luck! :)

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Here is the solution to the American drug problem suggested a couple years back by the wife of our President: Just say no.―Kurt Vonnegut
No! Ex addict, been to a Rehabilitation Center in Detroit. 12 years clean now :)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:29 pm 
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brassknuckle wrote:
I was wondering how are you doing? Any updates? Hope you are fine and good luck! :)


@brassknuckle, thanks for your reply.

Although it hasn't been long, I have not used any Fentanyl since Thursday. I ahve been taking 4-6mg of sub per day since Friday and dealing with the WDs... Thing is, I think I also had a norovirus the same night I started WDs (Others in my family also became sick) so I am not sure which was WDs and which was the stomach bug, but what a few days either way. It's Sunday now and I am on 4mg of sub today and feel decent. I still have little energy as today was the first I could eat. But no nausea, only slight runny nose, moderate joint/back pain.

At least I am not dead. Thank you for checking in on me and I hope to keep reporting back with better and better news.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 10:38 pm 
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Hey Reprieve,

You have done an excellent job of conveying your thoughts here. I get the impression that you are a very intelligent man, who also happens to be an addict. Speaking from experience here, this is a pretty dangerous combination. I have known alot of addicts over the years, and we all do a pretty good job of convincing ourselves that we can "control" our addiction. You seem to have things pretty well laid out for yourself, clearly stating that you want to be done with this and move on to a sober life. But I've also seen you giving alot of reasons why you can't consider getting into suboxone treatment for an indefinite time period. You have made your point very clear, and I totally get where you're coming from. But, none of these issues are completely insurmountable. I'm afraid you are coming up with very eloquently stated excuses not to get yourself roped into long term treatment.

The fact is, Reprieve, you have tried everything else. Why not give long term maintenance with suboxone a real shot? Unfortunately, using it in short spurts just to get yourself through WD isn't enough in most cases to get people sober. I really think you are at the point that you need to make some incredibly hard decisions. The first thing you need to do is accept that there is nothing you can do to get "control" over your addiction. That doesn't mean accepting the fact that you can't use again without losing control. It means accepting the fact that you don't have the power to control yourself enough to keep from using again to start with.

In other words it's not about gaining control, it's about accepting the absence of control.

I'm not trying to pick on you here, Reprieve. You wanted it straight up, and that's what I see. I think you really need to do whatever you have to do to get on suboxone right now, and stay on it until you have had the chance to make some serious changes in your life. Some people I know have been successfull in making these changes and have moved on to live without suboxone. But I don't think everyone can or should. It just depends on how hard you work on your recovery.

I'm glad you have found Dr. J and our forum. I should have said this already, but you are most welcome here! I look forward to hearing more from you.

Q

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:08 pm 
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Horsegal , we had an exchange some time ago , you are so right 100% " it's not about gaining control but about accepting the absence of it " There's a very enjoyable period in the beginning .. Then you reach a place where you CANT turn back, your always chasing ... Mike Crown Point, IN


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:21 pm 
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@qhorsegal2, as always thanks for the reply and your thoughts.

I will accept your argument. I can look back at these post and see myself looking for reasons for this not to work and looking for reasons for that not to work, like I know where I need to go, when in fact if I knew what to do in the first place I wouldn't be in this situation.

And everyone is right, I have finally realized that I have no control to control myself. But when I say that I want to learn CONTROL, it's not to control my addiction.. I don't want to "Use Smart" or "Taste" or "Chip" on the weekends. I know that I can never control my habit. What I mean by learning control is to learn the tools, the triggers, the skills I need to notice when I am getting into a situation to where I feel I need to use... To control my emotions enough to face them instead of try to dull them.

Tomorrow will begin my search for my own Sub Dr (But I am afraid that Dr J doesn't have a brother who lives close by) and again, I am not adverse to a long term treatment. It took my several years to get to this point, why would I expect to turn around and get back in a shorter amount of time. I made this bed, and I am ready to lay in it, just not DIE in it.

Again, thank everyone for there time and posts.... Keep them coming. I love all info and advice and I am willing to listen to all sides of the coin. In fact I have even been on the anti-sub forums (although I must say from my experience and reading, this side of the debate make MORE sense to ME)

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:05 am 
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Reprieve,
Yes, get an appt. set to see a sub doctor. What I hope you understand is that being on sub maintenance is a great alternative to active using. I would make the whole process real simple and take one thing at a time. For now, in my opinion, you need to get on sub and stable at a dose that not only takes your withdrawal away, it also takes the craving away to use your DOC. From there you can start adding the things that help "you" in your recovery. What I would say about that is read what people do here on this site to help with their addiction. Follow, try the things that they suggest, you might be pleasantly surprised on the outcome. For myself, I really do not like group meetings, but I went anyway. I kept trying different groups, different times, different days, even different cities. Well, low and behold I still do not like them. But thats ok, because I have found at every meeting I went to I still could relate to what was being shared and I did not feel alone. I have found I am better with counseling one on one, yet I still will go to meetings occasionally. There is no perfect way to do this. You just need to be honest with yourself and willing to try, give it your best shot, why the hell not!!! You, my friend, have a family that cares about you, do this for you so you can be there for them.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:57 am 
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@JustDoIt4U.. Thank you, and point taken. I have begun the process of contacting my insurance to be pre-qualified for treatment, although a denial will not keep from seeking a Dr, just thought if insurance would cover that would be one less thing to worry about. The money I will save NOT buying street drugs will more than enough cover the cost of visit and script.

I have a list of the three closest Sub Dr to try and get on their waiting list, and a list that progressively get farther away.

I have also been looking for groups, however due to several factors, the main one being my town is small enough and stigma too high, that I will have to travel to another city to participate so that I don't fear something personal being made very public.

Another thing I am scared of, is the experience that my father had with group meetings. He would always meet people that would then become his new dealers/drinking buddies. I may need to take a friend (Non user) that will help keep me from re-socializing and just meeting new hook-ups. I won't let it stop me, I just wanted it out there for honesty sake.

Again, thank everyone SOO MUCH for the support you have shown me just this weekend... You guys must have the luckiest friends in the world. IF you would be so supportive of someone you have never met, imagine if we had a history together.

I have started a post in the "My Addiction Story" part of the forum and I hope to use that as a "personal diary" of sorts to periodically check in and report, so hopefully in a year from now, two years form now, a decade form now (easy to say now I know) I will be able to look back to where I was and think, wow..... Look it how far I have made it.

Thanks for the start guys\gals.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:33 am 
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Hey Reprieve,

You have received alot of great advice here, and even a bit of tough love. I just wanted to leave you with a bit of support because I am impressed with the humility you have shown in responding to all of the advice thus far.

Above all, the most important thing is that you have recognized that what you have been doing up until now is NOT working for you. You made the decision to reach out and start the process of getting real help. However you choose to do that, you are making positive strides toward sobriety. I give you big props for that.

I have faith that you will win this battle. One day at a time. Keep your head up, Reprieve, I'm proud of you. :)

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:40 am 
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Quick update:

First Sub Dr: Could get little info upfront. Someone will call me soon to let me know if there is even a place or if I am on a waiting list. This Dr does not take insurance for the office visit, just medication....
This was the Dr I tried Subs the first time, and I remember something fishy about how he billed... it made me feel he was taking advantage of my situation and that HE was my drug dealer....

I will still await more info and I have others to try, just thought I would mention it.

Does anyone have any info as to why a Dr would not accept insurance for an office visit, if my insurance was willing to pay for said office visit? Just wondering if this is standard stuff or if my gut feeling about this guy are right and I should just move on?

Thanks for any info you can give.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:12 pm 
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Location: Reading, Pennsylvania
it is standard..almost all suboxone doctors only accept cash payments, and do not accept insurance

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:27 pm 
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Most insurance company's only allow a certain amount for office visits. If the doctor accepts this amount then you usually have a co-pay of approximately $10-$50, or whatever your plan states. I guess some people have a zero co-pay and the doctor settles on what the ins. allows.

By refusing to take a patients insurance, the good doctor can charge whatever they want knowing most addicts will pay if they want those subs. It's all about the money to some of these doctors, not all of course, but I would say lots of them do it this way.

This cash fee is more than the insurance money would be to them.

Your gut feeling is probably correct.

Karen


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:08 pm 
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Location: West Tennessee
It does seem as if most suboxone doctors, for whatever reason, don't like to accept insurance payments for the office visits. Of the doctors in my immediate area I am only aware of ONE that does accept insurance.
I have been told that there can be some problems getting the insurance companies to pay for this type of treatment, and in the best case scenario they have to wait weeks or months to get paid from the companies. I believe their reasons for not trying harder to make the insurance companies pay is more a matter of convenience than anything else. Although it is tough on those of us who have insurance that would pay on it, I wouldn't judge the doctor based on this alone. My first doctor accepted my insurance no problem, but he was AWFUL. The one I am with now does NOT accept insurance, but he is the kindest, most caring and understanding doctor I have ever met. Of the doctors in my immediate area I am only aware of ONE that does accept insurance. It could be that we are placing the bulk of the blame on the doctors here, when in actuality it's the insurance companies that are causing the problems to begin with.

If you have insurance that will cover the medication, be grateful for that. It's going to be the biggest expense anyway.

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