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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:02 am 
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The thing about NA that never worked with me was the fact you have to believe in some kinda interventionist higher power. People say "your higher power can be anything you like", but that isn't 100% true. Your higher power has to be able to protect you in some way, or act as some kinda barrier between you and your own destructive nature. Your higher power has to be willing to "take your will and give replace it with its own" ... So basically you gotta be able to interact with your higher power on a daily basis, and it has to be able to answer your prayers on some way...

So the idea that the universe or the unknown can be an appropriate higher power doesn't really fit, because the universe can't take your will and replace it with its own. Instead a higher power has to act as some kinda giant hoover in the sky that can suck up all the bad bits in us and replace it with good (because we are all inherinetly flawed destructive addicts - a really life affirming view of humanity that reeks of Catholicism).

I have my own spiritual beliefs, and I guess you could call it a "higher power". But there's no way my higher power would want to intervene or give me any kinda special attention. They say "self obsession" is the bane of the addict, yet they encourage everyone to have their own unique special higher power devoted to their well-being. Sounds a bit self-obsessed... Then they encourage people to talk about themselves to a room fulla people for 15 minutes. I remember some of the older-cleaner apparently healthy members how they'd get resentful if they didn't get asked to share. :lol: Talk about self-obsession.

One thing that NA/AA has in common with all cults is it claims to offer an explanation for why each of us feels somehow different from everyone else. The 12-steps explains it by claiming that we are all addicts, we were born addicts, we are somehow inherently different hence why we felt like a "square peg in a round box" all our lives, and that is why we're attracted to drugs. Basically there are "addicts" and there are normal people, and the addicts feel different. Scientology explains it with the idea of Engrams - that people who seek answers or are dissatisfied have some kinda unique mental pain planted by Thetans, or spirits of the victims of Xenu the badass dude who took over the universe and planted H-Bombs under volcanoes. Access Consciousness (a relatively new cult spreading among lonely middle-aged pseudo-spiritual middle-classed women where waving fingers around people's bodies can cure all ailments) claims that people who feel different to others, or more sensitive souls, are actually special "X-men or X-Women", and who are actually the most gifted of people and can see things the normal people can't.

So when people finally figure out why they've felt different all their lives, wow it can be such a relief. But the reality is that EVERY HUMAN feels different. It's actually normal and human to question such things through their lives. Ask anyone in the street if they've ever "felt different from everyone else", I guarantee if they are honest they will say yes. We are all different and unique from each other, because each of us sees the world through our own unique values, experiences and make-up. Nobody else experiences the world as we do.


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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 8:35 am 
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TJ, again, thanks for taking the time to write out that post. It's quite a thought-provoking perspective on the whole higher power thing. For example, how would a deist fit in with AA/NA's version of a higher power? It wouldn't, because a deist, although they believe in a higher power (a god), they don't believe that their god is involved in their daily life. This is why people say it's geared towards christianity as a whole and not other belief structures. But way too many people don't even know what deism is, much less what it means and that goes for other belief systems.

Much to think about....

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 12:00 pm 
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With NA, I realized pretty early on that you have to take what works for you and leave the rest. If the "higher power" aspect on NA is troubling you, then ignore that part. Myself, I had huge issues with the step work, I found a lot of the questions to be rather stupid, so I quit doing them. Also, I found the whole notion of sponsorship didn't quite agree with me, so I didn't participate in that aspect of the program either.

Step work and sponsorship are two of the most basic tenets of NA, but I ignored them both, yet I still learned a shit-ton of information about recovery in the rooms.

NA does have a lot to offer, I learned a lot from my time in NA, but I also learned, contrary to their belief, that NA is NOT a perfect program (I honestly can't believe some of them actually believe that NA is perfect....what a hoot!!). So again, take what works for you and leave the rest.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:43 pm 
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Wow, and thank you again . I have been so stressed about these meetings. I guess because finally I wanna actually use them in a positive progressive way. In the past I attended these places and never really quite grasped any of it. I guess its because I was only there cause I had to be there,and this time i search them for a actuall reason. So its all about new beginnings for me. You know ,when we mention how we all are different from each other and that being as we are different , we all recover in such different ways. What works for one may not work for another,and this is what I am finally getting . My counselor doesnt actually tell me the course I should take but he does kinda push towards a christian based thing not for the religious aspect but for what the meeting holds after the meeting is over.This is where he says I will benefit the most.. Well I am going to the next meeting both na, and the celebrate because untill I do I will just go nuts wondering what I should do. And then I will be able to make a more educated decision onj what is good for me..I will take romeos advice also, and just use what works for me.. I dont have to do what I feel doesnt work,but I need to at least try it first ..right? kinda like mikey and his dam cereal.. well thank you for all the input ..it has really been awesome ..and it has helped me to kinda shape what my recovery is to become. thank you very much


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 Post subject: Re: NA and suboxone...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 12:34 pm 
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So great there are people getting their lives back using Suboxone. It seems however there is a big Mis-understanding about NA and suboxone. NA is very clear. A member does not have to be clean to be a member. You only have to have the desire to be clean. They have a bulletin from world services called Bulletin #29 and a phamplet about medications. In NA they make a distinction between drug replacement such as suboxone and medications taken for health pain psychiatry. NA treats addiction through complete abstinence so they don't consider suboxone users clean. They don't have an opinion on whether it works or not. They do however have an opinion on defining abstinence for themselves and they have defined that suboxone is not clean for nA. If it's clean to you that's great. It's just not NA clean.


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 Post subject: Re: NA and suboxone...
PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:32 pm 
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Suboxonepost is correct for the most part. IMO, keep it a secret. No one needs to know if you are on a replacement drug or not. Getting the benefit of the program is the most important reason to go. If later on you have a good support group behind you and you think it's time to get off the Suboxone, then they will help you get through it and be there while you are miserable.

Try to find a sponsor who in time you can trust with knowing you're on Sub. It is a tricky one for sure. Some members here have had bad experiences in NA when they told them the truth. Others have found success and empathy. You won't know until you go. If that doesn't work, find different meetings. If that fails, go to AA and do the same thing.

And BTW, welcome here Suboxonepost! Just so you know, this thread is over a year and a half old. But still a good one to repost.

Why don't you post a little info about yourself in the Introductions section?

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 Post subject: Re: NA and suboxone...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:09 am 
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Suboxone is clean in many circles. It's important as people who are recovering by the method of suboxone to still respect other approches to treating addiction. Even those that are the complete opposite of suboxone such as Narcotics Annonymous. Narcotics annonymous does not consider drug replacement clean in narcotics annonymous but they have no opinion on treatment centers that use suboxone. I think it would be wise to take the no opinion approach to narcotics annonymous. Drug replacement isn't ther thing. They do the total abstinence thing.


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 Post subject: Re: NA and suboxone...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:10 am 
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Although they will welcome you at the meetings. You will run into a lot of controversy over suboxone.


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 Post subject: Re: NA and suboxone...
PostPosted: Tue Dec 03, 2013 12:59 pm 
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I personally have been thinking alot about attending NA. Not really to be an example, but to just meet others that are not drinking, or doing drugs. I need some sober friends. Ever since I got on suboxone medication and stopped all other drugs and alcohol, I have not gone out because it is hard for me to meet others that do not drink or use.

I am happy and feel great, but I am also lonely.

That being said, I think NA is a great place to meet sober friends and attend sober outings. If I do start going to NA, I will def keep the suboxone to myself and I guess, I will just play it by ear on the rest of the NA events.

I so wish there was meetings locally for people on suboxone or methadone. Since there is no such meetings that I know about except for this forum, I will go to the next best thing and seek out others that have the same goal as me. The desire to be drug free.


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