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 Post subject: ambivalence of suboxone
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:23 am 
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Morning
I apologize for my derogatory statements concerning suboxone ~ i wish the best for everyone on this forum. I thought this forum was to advocate the ambivalence of using medications. In other words ~ what works for one person might not work for another. I hope and pray for everyone on this forum is doing well and getting better.
I watched a very strong movie on netflix this early a.m. called "A Cat Named Bob" ~ about a gentleman fighting heroin addiction ~ recovery ~ and i will not spoil the movie ~ great movie !!
Peace Hawthorne


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:42 am 
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Am checking out the film now. Thanks!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:24 am 
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Hey Hawthorne...

I'm sure everyone here feels badly that the medication hasn't worked out for you. When you mention
ambivalence, I assume you mean that no drug is perfect, and that no drug works for everyone.
And that's entirely correct.

At the same time, just about all of us would say that it works for the great majority of people.
So any claims that this is not true will bring cries of protests from forum members. Sometimes
we can get a little strident in our passionately held belief in buprenorphine. I've done it myself, though
I try hard not to.

So, are you currently not using bupe? Do I understand correctly that you're currently not on anything?

I'll check out that movie as well!

Best,
Godfrey


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:49 am 
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Hey hawthorn!

I'll have to check out the film u mentioned.

It's amazing how watching something like that can take us bk to the days when we were suffering as well. It makes things seem less important because that's real suffering. I try to remember those days (as bad as they were) to keep me humble and take nothing for granted. Imo that's pretty important to recovery.... not to forget how lucky we are to not be in active addiction.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:10 am 
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Thanks for following up, Hawthorn, and 'peace out!'

I don't know about 'ambivalence'... my intent in starting the forum was to promote accurate information, for both patients and doctors. When the forum started there was a huge amount of misinformation out there, and now things are..... pretty much the same!!

Over the years, I think that one of the forum's best services has been in helping people taper off buprenorphine; not by trashing the drug, but by providing the support needed to tolerate those long, difficult days and nights.

I also recognize that there are efforts to remove buprenorphine as a treatment option... motivated by ignorance in some cases (for example from people who think everyone on buprenorphine get's high from taking it), or motivated by other things (people who work in or run abstinence-based treatments see buprenorphine as a threat, consciously or unconsciously).

I recognize that abstinence-based programs do very little for people addicted to opioids, and I believe that Vivitrol is even worse, by raising hopes and expectations and making it even easier for people to blame addicts for their addictions.

Those are some of the reasons for the forum. Ambivalence wasn't ever a motivator for the forum, other than to help people get over their ambivalence, and use the medication. I'll add here that I receive nothing from companies that make buprenorphine products, and I am not advertising. I've been closed to new patients for over a year now, and because of my location in 'the heartland' I've always had more phone calls looking for help than I can handle!

Feel free, Hawthorn, to stick around or stop by now and then. We all wish you well.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:02 pm 
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Afternoon
I know that the word ambivalent can have different meanings : undecided, mixed, conflicting, opposed, uncertain, unsure, contradictory, wavering, unresolved, fluctuating, hesitant, inconclusive, debatable, equivocal, vacillating, warring, irresolute .

Maybe Ambivalent goes a little deeper than i expected. Some things work for me while others things do not, But that is just me ~ I think we all hold ambivalent ideologies in out minds. For instance there is ambivalence to AA meetings for Addicts ~ It might work for some but not for others ~ ( i have no personal belief either way) it is just an example. We all choose what we think is going to work in our recovery and we are always open to suggestions

The SubDoc is right ~ patients and addicts have the right to have the ambivalence of choosing what is right for their recovery ~ some things might work and some things might not ? everyone is different. (Doc i hope i am quoting you right here ?)

Enough of that ~ It was just the way i was feeling about somethings when i could not sleep at 2 a.m. ~
Going forward ~ today is day 9 ~ no subs ~ no opiates ~ = amazing ! I just went shopping and ran into friends at the market ~ i could look at them with my eyes so clear ~ and listen to them in patience ~ this is all new to me and i like it. ( i am in control)

I came home and it still being in the lower 50's here in the cape ~ i just finished stacking wood and getting ready for a cold rainy few days ~ heading out to fertilize the lawn and plant some seed ~ today is a good day ~ tomorrow may not be ~ i take them as they come ! I am real early in recovery and when i say "baby steps" i mean it.

When i am ready to go back to NA meetings next week i will raise my hand ~ when they say are you new or coming back. !! For i have to start all over again ! but that is OK !

Have a good day Hawthorne



Enough of that ~ I am on Day


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:25 pm 
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Hey Hawthorne,

Your post made my day!

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 7:53 am 
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You mentioned the 'cape'...
That's ironic...

I just watched a documentary on HBOGo...last night...
"Heroin: Cape Cod, USA"

Worth watching, but pretty sad ..shows what many towns have faced/are facing in the midst of the opiate crisis.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:19 pm 
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hey man
yes i saw that HBO documentary about H and cape cod when it came out ~ that was so sad ~ makes you think uh ? I did not get caught up in H and that whole thing ~ mine was all pills

When i watched that Documentary i swear i did not take my eyes off it the entire program ~ if you get netflix ~ watch "A street cat named Bob" ~ very good and true

Hawthorne


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:04 pm 
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Hawthorne I'm enjoying reading your very diplomatic posts on the topic of ambivalence. Agree wholeheartedly that each are entitled to their own views, approaches and feelings towards what works for them.

Recovery can resemble religion at times in that people swear by what method they've chosen, and become intolerant of others. This can also make people incredibly defensive when they hear criticism being directed towards their own approach. You see it everywhere, in 12-step fellowships, in Scientology rehabs, even evidence based approaches like CBT groups and SMART recovery can look down their nose at 12-step groups. You also see it on this forum, often between the Suboxone lifers and those that are trying to pursue abstinence.

I watched the movie you posted, and all I'll say is it was a bit of a recovery cliche. Homeless man down on his luck comes across a cat, cat changes his fortunes, man gets housing, man gets clean and lives happily ever after. Just be careful because for the vast majority of people, life and recovery isn't like that. It'd be great if it was!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:38 pm 
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Hawthorne714 wrote:
hey man
yes i saw that HBO documentary about H and cape cod when it came out ~ that was so sad ~ makes you think uh ? I did not get caught up in H and that whole thing ~ mine was all pills

When i watched that Documentary i swear i did not take my eyes off it the entire program ~ if you get netflix ~ watch "A street cat named Bob" ~ very good and true

Hawthorne



Hey, read up on your story, happy to hear you are still going strong clean from stopping that much suboxone.

Just wanted to say one little thing, we should all be careful about that "I wasn't in to H, stuck to pills myself" mentality. Yes, H has its own specific perils like the dangers of overdosing that comes with the widely different strengths of the drug, tendency to associate H with IV use, the crowd you might end up associating with in your quest to maintain your habit, etc etc but H is an opiate no different than the pills oxycodone/vicodin/hydromorphone are all opiates. Being stuck on pills not much different than being stuck on H. I would even add it's not really any different at all from the aspect of trying to transition from any of those to clean. Sure you would agree with the majority of all that, but just wanted to include that here in case who else runs into this thread and might be underappreciating their problems simply because they think since they haven't touched H they are somehow still "good", or "I don't have a problem or dependence, because I take my 150 opiate pills/month under direction of my doctor", or their problem "isn't that bad because they aren't a strung out H addict", etc etc.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 10:43 am 
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Dsh very very good points!

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