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PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:47 pm 
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Hey everybody. Long time no see, been busy. Hope everyone is doing well. I'm just going to tell you what my experience was. I was only on sub for around 6 months when I realized it wasn't for me. My experience may be VERY different from yours for that reason. I experienced severe diarrhea for about ohhh 3 weeks. That doesn't sound like long, but it seems like a lifetime when it's occuring. SEVERE ANXIETY for about 3 months, and it gradually got better. It's been a year for me, and the anxiety just fully subsided about a month ago. I was also tired at times.

All of this sounds scary, but if you really really want to be off sub, then you will make it through all of this. Get with a good primary care doctor, who is also an addictionologist so that he/she can controll your symptoms, stay busy, exercise, and whatever you do, DO NOT replace the sub with any other substances. It will all be over one day. Our addictions didn't happen in 1 day, so sobriety will take work, work, work. It took a year for me to feel like my normal self.

Good luck. You can do it!!!


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 Post subject: Re: My Taper Progress...
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 2:17 pm 
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markb0707 wrote:
Hi everyone,

From what I've read and heard from others tapering experience, tapering becomes really really difficult once tryiing to drop below the 2 mgs per day. I have been splitting my dosage into 2, I take the first mg in the a.m. & then the last mg in the evening...I've been doing well on only 2 mgs/day, haven't experienced any real trouble until yesterday. The day before yesterday, since I was doing so well with my first drop, I attempted dropping my daily dosage by a quarter of a mg, making my daily dosage 1.75 mgs. I started with taking 1 mg in the morning, and then .75 in the evening and up until I went to sleep that evening, I was physcially fine. No syptoms of w/d or anything, I fell asleep well. But at about 4:30 am I was awoken out of a dead sleep with an immense amount of anxiety, tons of tension in my arms & legs and a feeling like the nerves in them were standing on end. Even just having the sheets touch any part of my body was unbearable. I was tempted to go ahead and down a dose of Sub but instead took a luke warm shower which seemed to help just a little, I was able to hang on until my morning doseage of the 1 mg, and once I took it, within an hour I started feeling some relief. I thought it would stay at that level at least until my evening dose of .75 mg but unfortunately I didn't make it. Half way through the day yesterday, I began profusely sweating, my jaw was clenching up and I didn't even realize it until I started getting a headache and my teeth began to hurt, my intenstines were in complete knots with cramping & of course diarrhea..after about 4 hours of trying to hold out, I had no choice but to take another 1 mg, & then still took the .75 mg to help get me out of the w/d quickly. It worked of course, within a couple hours I was back to being what I am accostomed to as normal but I lost the battle this time. I am not entirely sure why, but it seems a lot of us hit this same plateau and problem once getting below the 2 mg dosing? I wonder why that is?

I may have lost this battle but I won't lose the war...I am going to continue on with the 2mgs for a few more days, and then attempt another taper by a .25 drop again but this time I'm going to do every other day, see if that at least makes it bearableat least until I can adjust physically. However, the positive side of everything is that I have so much more determination now that I've dropped to 2 mgs. God, I feel alive again...I feel human, it has been so incredible to wake up each day, and actually "feel"...even if I feel stressed, it is a good feeling, cause I can actually feel it, and then properly eliminate or deal with the issue that's causing the stress in order to get rid of it. My kids have even noticed a difference in my demeanor, my temperment, and moods...there has been such changes in a very short amount of time....it just gives me more motivation to keep on keeping on, pick my battle wisely, and find a way to be successful. Thank you guys again for all your feedback and advice, it has all really played a huge part of me being able to actually begin this journey of stopping....you showed me that it was possible and so worth it....not that it was going to be easy or simple, but nothing in life worth having is easy, but well worth any of the hardship. Thanks again everyone. Hope you are all doing well, living healthy, and staying strong! God bless.

Mark


Mark, you truly didn't even lose this battle. It gets way, way more difficult to drop at these doses. It is hard to wrap your mind around it, because it is such a tiny piece....how could it make any significant difference? Yet it does!!! I so dislike that nasty wake-you-up-from-a-dead sleep anxiety.

Let yourself get very comfortable at 2 mg and then go ahead and try alternating with 1.75. I promise that if you just keep plugging along, you will eventually make it, and you will feel wonderful that you did.

Best of luck. I think you are doing very well.

laddertipper ~Sub free since 8/14/11 after almost 6 years on

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 Post subject: Thanks Laddertipper
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 10:16 pm 
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Thank you laddertipper! The encouragement really helps the spirit stay determined & focused, I really appreciate it and your feedback. I can't believe after 6 years you're off, and have been for 7 MONTHS! That's incredible! I can't wait to get there! Do you mind if I ask acouple of questions of you?

Since you have been off for the time you've been, have you experienced any "cravings" for Sub or any other opiate? Also, I've heard from others that have been successful in quitting, that for a long time afterwards, after the w/d process and all that, that physical pains become somewhat of an issue. Regular body pains & aches feel much worse than before, like headaches, back aches..."normal" everyday pangs of daily living, and getting older type of issues. They're pain tolerance isn't the same as before, and they're much more effected by the little pains and things, have you experienced any of this at all?

Thanks

Mark


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 Post subject: Re: Thanks Laddertipper
PostPosted: Wed Mar 14, 2012 11:26 pm 
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markb0707 wrote:
Thank you laddertipper! The encouragement really helps the spirit stay determined & focused, I really appreciate it and your feedback. I can't believe after 6 years you're off, and have been for 7 MONTHS! That's incredible! I can't wait to get there! Do you mind if I ask acouple of questions of you?

Since you have been off for the time you've been, have you experienced any "cravings" for Sub or any other opiate? Also, I've heard from others that have been successful in quitting, that for a long time afterwards, after the w/d process and all that, that physical pains become somewhat of an issue. Regular body pains & aches feel much worse than before, like headaches, back aches..."normal" everyday pangs of daily living, and getting older type of issues. They're pain tolerance isn't the same as before, and they're much more effected by the little pains and things, have you experienced any of this at all?

Thanks

Mark


Hi. Mark. I'm so happy that I can share my experience with you. I remember very, very well how worried I was during my taper that it would never get easy and I'd never be done. The funny thing is that is seems so tough, but then one day, you are actually done and you made it.....it's a wonderful feeling.

As far as cravings for opiates, no....but I started Sub for pain and not opiate dependency. I did crave Sub on and off for a while. Before I jumped, I tapered to 1/16 mg, so the jump was easy. HOWEVER, between my tapering and the lingering symptoms I had after jumping, I'd say I felt uncomfortable for a solid 9 months. I went through weeks and weeks of leg pains that were maddening. Also, my body temp was insane.....months of alternating between cold sweats and hot flashes. Even after tapering and jumping that low, I still struggled after I jumped with these same things. Once I stopped Sub, ongoing female problems I'd had for a long time became intolerable. I couldn't understand how I'd dealt with it so long. So, I had a hysterectomy two months after I jumped. Afterward, they gave me pain meds and I will admit that it was a wonderful relief from the body temp issues and weird smell in my nose and crazy sneezing. I was in the hospital, walking around in that hospital gown, and I was warm. It felt fantastic to not be uncomfortable in that sense, and I was scared to death that I'd be uncomfortable forever. Five months later, I can confidently tell you that my body temp is normal. It resolved itself. Everything resolved or is resolving itself. My legs don't hurt anymore. My back doesn't hurt.

One thing that did happen is that I got sick an insane amount of times while tapering and since. I just got over another sinus infection/bronchitis and round of antibiotics. I'm part part of it is simply feeling everything more, but I also think tapering off Sub takes a whole lot out of a person and makes us more prone to getting sick.

The last hurdles I have are my stomach and my sleep. I am very sensitive to anything fatty or that has too much dairy. I've never, ever watched what I eat or stuck to any diet restrictions. Now, I pay dearly for eating the wrong stuff. It's getting better slowly, though. My sleep is still a little unpredictable, but I'm not averaging 6-6.5 hours a night. That's not too bad! I used to sleep 12 hours easy on Sub, and not I sleep half as much but feel much more rested.

The bottom line is that right now, I already feel far, far better than I ever did while on Suboxone, and I'm just thrilled I saw it through. The difference is truly night and day, and I can only imagine that it will keep getting better. It was super tough at times to stop Sub, but there was a pot of gold at the end. Do I wish I'd done it sooner? YES! I did not know Suboxone could be having such a significant impact on my life. Live and learn, right?

laddertipper

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 9:58 am 
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Laddertipper~ Well that is a relief, I was placed on Sub to manage pain as well as to break my dependence on other opiates that were ised for pain management during chemotherapy & radiation, so I too was not one whohad an acute addiction (at least not mentally) to them. I never really had the desire to obtain the feeling of euphoria by taking them, so hopefully I won't have any cravings for them either. With getting sick repeatedly, I think that is pretty common, as I know detox does take a huge toll on the immune system. I'm just in such anticipation to be able to get to the point in where you are....I know it is something that needs to be done slowly in order to be successful, but I'm definately motivated to continue. Thank you again for sharing.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:32 pm 
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I have been on Suboxone for 18 mo. 16Mg. Took my last dose 3-11-12 evening, so this is day 4 with no withdrawal syptoms at all, except for some blurry vision. I hope I am one of the lucky ones..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 1:33 pm 
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I have been on Suboxone for 18 mo. 16Mg. Took my last dose 3-11-12 evening, so this is day 4 with no withdrawal syptoms at all, except for some blurry vision. I hope I am one of the lucky ones..


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:29 pm 
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wow bacer4001". that would be a drop off of subox-. have you read about going off here on the forum?
Laddertipper and all. you guys make me feel like i don't have much a chance or choice, but to jump or tapper? :roll:
i just cant believe your doing so well .

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 3:46 pm 
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rickenbacker4001 wrote:
I have been on Suboxone for 18 mo. 16Mg. Took my last dose 3-11-12 evening, so this is day 4 with no withdrawal syptoms at all, except for some blurry vision. I hope I am one of the lucky ones..


So you stopped suddenly from 16 mg a day 4 days ago? I hate to be the one to tell you this, but it's pretty likely that with that much sub in your system (the very long half-life), plus the stacking effect, that the withdrawals just haven't started yet. They could start at any time now.

Jumping from 16 mg is a HUGE dose to stop from. Is there a reason you didn't taper down before you stopped your treatment? Most of the withdrawals, both acute and post-acute can be minimized by doing a long, slow taper.

Let us know how you're doing and we'll help you through it as much as we can. Good luck and hang in there.

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 Post subject: Is that possible?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:09 pm 
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rickenbacker4001 wrote:
I have been on Suboxone for 18 mo. 16Mg. Took my last dose 3-11-12 evening, so this is day 4 with no withdrawal syptoms at all, except for some blurry vision. I hope I am one of the lucky ones..



Wow...you completely jumped cold turkey at 16mgs after over a year and a half of use? It sounds like hatmaker has hit the nail on the head. I think up to this point you've just been extremely fortunate in that Sub works the way it does with the brain, you've been really lucky that you haven't gone straight into w/d, but I think it is just a matter of time before your body starts having an issue. I'm hoping that this doesn't happen for you....but if it does, come on back and look into tapering slowly. Keep us posted on how you're doing.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Buprenorphine has an extended half-life at higher doses, when when people jump off high doses, it takes longer for withdrawal to kick in.

I wouldn't be surprised if withdrawal took 3-4 days to come out jumping off a dose like 16mg.


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 Post subject: Jumping from 16
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 6:34 pm 
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With a jump like that, you could end up facing some pretty acute w/d symptoms. Hope it doesn't happen but its likely. Be careful and keep us posted.


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 Post subject: Taper
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:29 pm 
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Mark,

I read your experience with the drop. I would suggest what my doc is telling me to you, he is really involved with the taper issues, I was lucky to finally find a doc who is really helping.

Each time you taper you need to take it really really slow. If you are on 2mg stay there for at least two or three weeks, then take it down by .25, it may even take longer. You want to let your body get used to the lower dose. This is due to the half life sub had it can take this long. If you have dropped to 2mg your body will not realize it for almost a week when the half life is slowly and I mean slowly leaving your receptors. My doc said to wait it out with each drop til you feel almost 100% on that dose.

I know that I have wanted to drop faster, be stronger, beat it but the w/d are just too severe. I hope this helps you, the slower you take it the better it will be, certainly not great but don't put yourself through the misery if you are unable to just check out of life. I have to do this as much as I would love to go faster it is not possible for me.


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 Post subject: Jumping
PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:32 pm 
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rickenbacker4001 wrote:
I have been on Suboxone for 18 mo. 16Mg. Took my last dose 3-11-12 evening, so this is day 4 with no withdrawal syptoms at all, except for some blurry vision. I hope I am one of the lucky ones..


I would hope and pray you are not going to be hit hard. I have heard of very few people being able to this but if you can then that is great, I actually hope this is true for you, how lucky you would be.

Please let us know what happens. I fear that your symptoms might hit you in about three days tops if they are going to. Do you have some sub left if you get in a bind??

I wish you the best but if the jump does not work, join us in the taper process, it is slow and full of agony sometimes but is how many people have to go.

Keep in touch and let us know.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:59 pm 
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ontoolong wrote:
Each time you taper you need to take it really really slow. If you are on 2mg stay there for at least two or three weeks, then take it down by .25, it may even take longer. You want to let your body get used to the lower dose. This is due to the half life sub had it can take this long. If you have dropped to 2mg your body will not realize it for almost a week when the half life is slowly and I mean slowly leaving your receptors. My doc said to wait it out with each drop til you feel almost 100% on that dose.


Hi Mark,

I agree with what ontoolong just said. Also I wanted to let you know I am at 2mg now as well. Its taken me about 2 months to get there. I had been on 8mg for 2.5 years. I actually did a similar thing as you - after only a week at 2mg I tried to go to 1.5, I was feeling frisky. It hit me a bit after 3 days so I went back up to 2mg and also took your advice, plus many have advised it on the forum, when you get low to split the dose in two- one morning and one night.

I will say thats the first I have felt anything noticeable in the past 2 months of tapering. FTR I did 7 mg for one week, 6mg for two weeks, 5mg for one week, 4mg for two weeks, 3mg for two weeks, and then 2mg for a week when I did 1.5mg for 3 days mentioned above thrn 4 days back at 2 mg split morning and night 1mg each.

I know I went kind of fast after 4mg from what has been suggested on the forum but I wated to give it a shot...

Thanks for posting!

P.s. rickenbacker4003 God bless you but I hope you kept a reserve just in case... If not read the "jumped without a parachute" thread like now. He jumped from about 8mg or a bit more and has gone about 30 days do far. Good luck!

GB


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 2:14 am 
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I am not entirely sure as to what happened in the last 24 hours but something went awry in a hurry. Aside from the little hiccup that I had when I attempted dropping to below 2 mgs/day, I was doing good I thought maintaining the 2 mgs and had intended on staying there for a period of time, then was going to lower slowly. Last night however, I had a very difficult time falling to sleep, I felt very restless, and a little anxiousness. It took about 2 hours when I finally fell out, but never really fell fully asleep, it was tossing & turning until about 3 in the morning. I came to with pain radiating throughout my legs, it was bad. When I went to get up out of bed, I realized I was drenched in sweat from head to toe, literally like Id dunked myself in a bath and went and layed in bed. My clothes were soaked, pillow was soaked through, and so was my side of the mattress. But it was when I actually stood up on my feet that I was completely slammed by a ton of bricks. My nerves were on end, my body ached, I was freezing cold, and after a few minutes I began repeatedly sneezing and sneezing and sneezing, I couldn't stop...I thought I was coming down with a flu or a cold at first, but a lot of the typical w/d syptoms started up and I figured it out. I just don't know what happened...the last few days have gone so well, I don't understand why all of the sudden I started going into acute w/d out of nowhere? I didn't miss a dose, I didn't lower by any? I'm frustrated and feel a bit defeated, but I just don't know by what though...what caused them to start . I ended up having to take an additional 1 mg in the middle of last night and then my morning 1 mg in order to completely alleviate the w/d. I finally crashed out about 11 o clock this morning and just woke up about an hour ago. Feeling much much better now of course physciallybut mentally mentally really discouraged....I just am trying to understand where it went wrong? Also...what the hell is the sneezing about? Has anyone else ever had that problem when w/ding? That was the strangest thing. I just have to figure out where I made the wrong turn so as not to repeat it. *sigh* Frustrated.

Mark


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:37 am 
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Don't be discouraged. Any withdrawals you feel now are LESS withdrawals to feel further in your taper and when you eventually jump off. Keep that in mind whenever things get tough.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:51 pm 
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I dont know i made a huge jump so i could start getting ready to start methadone and i got hit mike tyson hard. I think its different for everyone?

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:25 pm 
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markb0707 wrote:
I am not entirely sure as to what happened in the last 24 hours but something went awry in a hurry. Aside from the little hiccup that I had when I attempted dropping to below 2 mgs/day, I was doing good I thought maintaining the 2 mgs and had intended on staying there for a period of time, then was going to lower slowly. Last night however, I had a very difficult time falling to sleep, I felt very restless, and a little anxiousness. It took about 2 hours when I finally fell out, but never really fell fully asleep, it was tossing & turning until about 3 in the morning. I came to with pain radiating throughout my legs, it was bad. When I went to get up out of bed, I realized I was drenched in sweat from head to toe, literally like Id dunked myself in a bath and went and layed in bed. My clothes were soaked, pillow was soaked through, and so was my side of the mattress. But it was when I actually stood up on my feet that I was completely slammed by a ton of bricks. My nerves were on end, my body ached, I was freezing cold, and after a few minutes I began repeatedly sneezing and sneezing and sneezing, I couldn't stop...I thought I was coming down with a flu or a cold at first, but a lot of the typical w/d syptoms started up and I figured it out. I just don't know what happened...the last few days have gone so well, I don't understand why all of the sudden I started going into acute w/d out of nowhere? I didn't miss a dose, I didn't lower by any? I'm frustrated and feel a bit defeated, but I just don't know by what though...what caused them to start . I ended up having to take an additional 1 mg in the middle of last night and then my morning 1 mg in order to completely alleviate the w/d. I finally crashed out about 11 o clock this morning and just woke up about an hour ago. Feeling much much better now of course physciallybut mentally mentally really discouraged....I just am trying to understand where it went wrong? Also...what the hell is the sneezing about? Has anyone else ever had that problem when w/ding? That was the strangest thing. I just have to figure out where I made the wrong turn so as not to repeat it. *sigh* Frustrated.

Mark


Hey Mark, Sorry you went thru that. My old doctor always told me to not set any super firm goals and take tapering at my own pace and not to beat myself up if I had to increase my dose for a bit. All we can do is try our best. I hope you feel better man..

GB


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:34 pm 
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After doing some research here on the forum, as well as talking with my doctor this morning at great length....I think I figured out where I went wrong. I forgot to take into account Suboxone's half life, and the fact I had been taking up to 8 mg a day prior to dropping to 2. I was about to go into my 5th day, so I think for some people like me, the receptors in my brain took a little longer to drop the opiate from the Bup off....which is why I had the acute w/d hit me on the 4th day. Does this make any sense to anybody? Anyone had this experience at all?


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