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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:13 pm 
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I told my story of addiction...7 years plus of being on suboxone,xanax, clonopens, and alcohol. I went to detox and rehab and Saturday will be 7 weeks clean. Every day gets better and better. My energy is going up and my sleep is a bit more now. I can't explain the withdrawals i was going threw pretty nuts. I no that me getting rushed to hospital for being delusional, hullusinations and delirium was from the alcohol and benzo withdrawals. The suboxone withdrawals a friend and i were having was the crazy pain in the legs and body. My legs would lock up on me where i actually fall at times. The shacking is going and the sweats are gone. I really begged God to take me in the 5 days in the hospital. I had uncontrollable muscle contractions. Losing 27 pounds in 3 weeks was not fun, and not sleeping was not fun at all even on trazadone for sleep. I don't understand why the Doc is recommending for people to stay on suboxone. I could understand it you choose to do so in certain circumstance but i srongly disagree that all people need to be on it. I have no desire for that stuff or any of the 4 drugs i was taking, or painkillers which go me on subox in the first place. I would agree that a person should go on suboxone and maybe stay on it if that person doesn't want to go through a rehab to find the deeper issues behind their addictioon and underlying problems(or therapist) or if they are endangering there life with heroin use. I disagree a person getting off painkillers needs to be on it long term. But i guess everyone is different. I believe by the Doctor with all do respect telling people to stay on it, or pushing the product, is giving people dealing with denial something to cling on to to prolong the inevatable. LIsten I'm Italian and if guys i kno,w real deal guys, found out i went to rehab they would never look at me the same, but you know what im finially really happy i did it. Sometimes things happen for a reason. I say to those that are on suboxone long term to really weigh the pros and cons, and find out from family members, friends if its affecting your life at all. I wouldn't take clonopens ,xanaz or alcohol during the day, but i now see it had a big in pact on my life and judgement. Its so much different being on a clear head, what a great feeling. That basically the best part about being off suboxone is the clear thinking. You should see the difference in you thinking on a clear head. Its really crazy how different and better you head will be on.(by the way i was only taking 4 2mg subox a day)(o and i was taking 3 2mg clones,3 2mg xanax a day) Well thats my own opionion about suboxone, im not going to change my mind. Im still very mad at my doc for keeping me on it for so long and giving me another problem with clonopens, but what r u going to do... I think that quitting everything by going to a detox is hell, and i mean hell, but its worth it. I believe that the next best thing is tapering slowly. Good luck to everyone thats on it and i say conradulations to those who want off it and to the people who are trying.


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 Post subject: Hello
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:04 am 
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Hello and welcome.You certainly had a real rough time,especially with benzos. in the mix...such a deadly combo! I read your post,twice as a matter of fact,and yup you went through hell and back.I have had the opportunity,though not for long,to feel how "MY thinking" was on subs and off.In my experience ,I did not feel while on subs. that they had me in a haze at all,but the benzos certainly did.I was not after the benzos on a daily basis,but enough to certainly be mentioned (now that I think about it....OK God I get it!) My 1st round on subs was a mess..I did not take it seriously,and the benzos..forget about it,I literally would loose my memory of the day.Benzos have complete separate issue's and wd's all of theyre own.

Sometimes we blame the subs for all the wd's and any nasty side effects,forgetting what else is either in our body now or what else we have been using in the past...most certainly add's to the picture.

And yes ,I understand the Italian pride..LOL.I have witnessed it many times.But sometimes it is the pride that will kill us.Although we always hear "have you no pride?" It may work for the"earthlings" but pride will kill an addict/alcoholic..it almost did me.best of luck to you!


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 10:19 am 
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I'll try to explain why I and many others (including Dr. Junig, the owner of this forum) feel about it and why some of us advocate long term use of sub. It's basically because we subscribe to the medical model...i.e., addiction is a disease. It's a lifelong, incurable, relapsing disease that can be fatal. It's a disease that now has a medication to treat it. People blame a lot of things on suboxone, but what they forget is that they were addicted before they started sub. They couldn't get off opiates before suboxone but with it, they are now off them. They were also going to have withdrawals already because as I said, they were already addicted. But for us addicts, we are practically incapable of weaning ourselves off our DOC, but with suboxone, we actually CAN! I could go on and on, but I recommend you go to the top of this page and click on "TalkZone". That's Dr. J's blog and he talks about this very often, in fact one of his last posts, if I recall correctly. I also know he posted recently under a thread in the "Bupe in the rear view mirror" category. It's the most recent thread, but I don't recall the name. You'll understand my point much more if you read his reply there. I hope this helps.

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 Post subject: Re: 7 weeks clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Hello again...hatmaker pointed out some good articles,for the people who choose to stay on subs.long term.It is a deeply personal decision and certainly not one to be made by family,friends or even a spouse.I say this because this is my experience for the last 3 days,almost ready to jump off my subs. due to outside pressure,yes I'm tired and yes you may notice a slight difference in me,but have you noticed I have not visited 5 doctors this week and I can focus on my family and life and not have the obsession regarding my next pill.And this one may sound dramatic but I am not gonna O.D. while on subs,trying to achieve the best high I can get,because my tolerance is through the roof and I was taking deadly amounts of pills to achieve it. But here is my favorite part you stated a person should stay on subs if they don't want go to rehab and find out they're deeper issues and underlying problems.That's a pretty powerful statement ..it basically says....if your on subs your a cop out.

And then you said...subs/sub docs.are giving people in denial something to cling to Wow!.another strong statement.Denial of our addiction,wd's or that mom/dad were not the best parents in the world etc.I am well aware I am an addict and on suboxone because my addiction was out of control.And I am so lucky to clear the issues you mention while"on " it.And go off when God?i see fit and the advice of others who only have experienced what I have.

In regards to prolonging the inevitable,yes there is wd's waiting when I/we decide to stop subs.Also a new life,hopefully that we are learning to live while on them.

And finally your "real deal" friends would frown upon your recent experience.They should be patting you on the back for your recent triumphs...you stated at 1 point you asked God to take you,and I understood it completely and you survived!

Today you dont want to even touch your doc's......Amen.But always be on guard and wear your Armour.

I have never ,ever been so aggressive with a post,however if a new comer should read that,they will be misinformed,especially if they are just browsing on the net.I write this to you with a clear mind and the best of intention's.Humility!is a huge key to our success's.Every time I told God "I got this one" I most certainly did not.PEACE


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 Post subject: hopewinns
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:56 pm 
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First off I'm not calling anyone a cop out. Some people might not want to go to treatment and thats fine. I didn't want to..I wish i would have just detoxed myself seven years ago. I now no that suboxone withdrawals are worse than painkillers. As i was told by many it goes deep into your tissues and muscle and shit and stays there thats what makes the wd so bad. As for my friends most know and are extremely proud of me and are up my ass to make sure i don't slip up which i aint and my guard is up. I see your buying what the doc is selling and thats fine doesn't mean i need to. I have learned so much about subox and i went through a month plus of withdrawal from it. (im taking about sub not benzos or alcohol)It was hell but i chose to go to detox which was a personal descision i made. 7 days of detox was short and definieally not enough for the stuff i was on and the amount of time i was on it. Many Psychoitists would disagree with the Doc of this sight but some would agree. I was in one of the best treatment places very well known and the Psychiotrists there don't believe in staying on that shit for so long, neither does my brother who is a doctor. But your right its a personal choise for everyone, i can only state that the withdrawals are crazy for me and in the 7 days i was taking off it. I believe that certain circumstances may require staying on, my advice is to not get on sub unless you have no other choise. That is my opinon from being on that shit for so long...It sucks and i wish i had gone to dtox and rehab a lot sooner for myself. We live and we learn. I can honestly say that the wthdrawal from pills where better than suboxone in my opinoion. good luck everyone


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 3:00 pm 
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hopewins". yes keeping people "youth"on sub for a crutch is not the best way. but still". how many years have gone by with the very low rate in drug recovery. we are talking, well before i can remember. and with the AA NA low recovery percentage
and just this none drug and alca- recovery has been going on and on! what hat is explaining is the way. it is evident and just to apparent .


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 Post subject: re 7 years clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 4:21 pm 
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Your second response explains yourself entirely different in the first....entirely.If it was your 2nd response I had read 1st,I would have no opinion.We all can agree to disagree.And if we are talking about youth,it should be mentioned.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:23 pm 
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yes". but i just put youth in. many under aged drug addicts! your story means a lot. and maybe some day i'll think different . thanks God bless.


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 Post subject: 7 weeks clean
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 5:43 pm 
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yes! alot of youth are addicts! and come against alot of different things than adults do at times...different kinds of pressure's and it all is very valid! I mentioned there were no youths mentioned in the first post is all....I'm on your side,with the same disease!I have had many different views given to me here...and did not take them so harshly,we are here for the good of us.God Bless


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