It is currently Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:34 am



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 6:42 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
Hi everyone it is coming up to 2 months now or maybe it is 2 months that I have been off sub. I also have not take any opiates or benzos for a week either, so far I have not experienced much in the way of withdrawal at all. I do not know if I should be worried or happy. Are withdrawals going to hit on me later? has anybody experienced delayed onset of withdrawals? did I get lucky? all the way through on sub I worked out daily, ate right and was always on the move. I did stay on 1mg and under for the last 3 1/2 years, could that have played a part? I did taper to to 0.5. then missed a week and then took 0.3/0.25 and stopped. I have said I took few opiates but that was only for 2/3 weeks, I have stopped that and still feel the same as I did the first few weeks, not much in the way of withdrawal at all. I do have some restless legs but I think they are getting better. I have slept on average 7 hours every night since I jumped.

I just do not know whether I should be happy or concerned here. I am worried I might be hit with PAWS some time later but I never suffered PAWS before in my life. I haven't had much in the way of long opiate history so I do not know how PAWS feel like. Am not even in the mid 30s yet so maybe age plays a factor here? I am not sure if am still in a sub fog or not. Am hoping I got away lucky here but am not going to be optimistic just yet.


Last edited by Tammy on Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:55 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 11
Location: Northern CA
There are too many unknown factors for me to give some kind of clinical opinion, but I can tell you that 99% of us aren't "lucky" when it comes to withdrawal, and the chances you are the "lucky" one who doesn't even go through withdrawal are about the same odds as hitting the Powerball loterry.

Withdrawal is a tricky thing and it happens differently in everyone. The half-life on Suboxone is very long, and combined with benzos or anything else you've recently taken, it could be floating around your system for weeks before you hit real withdrawal. The dose you were on, the length of time on it, and the frequency of use are probably the biggest factors in determining withdrawal. And that's not even mentioning any depression medication or other meds you might be on or have taken recently. In my personal experience withdrawal sucks no matter what the hell you do, and it will happen at some point if it hasn't already. It's a big scary sounding thing, but even scarier than that is the idea that you will never be able to take pills or slam dope again. Seriously, for most of us that idea is so alien it's impossible to wrap your head around at first.

You need to do what is right for you though. If you just stop taking Suboxone, pop some benzos and hope for the best, you are in for a rude awakening at some point. This is a complex process that needs to happen in conjunction with some kind of mental health support. I mean, we are not normal - normal people don't have the screwed up heads like you and I do that made us start using opiates to begin with. Get in touch with your doctor ASAP and try to plan a slower taper.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:59 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
I did not mean to say no withdrawal at all but not enough that it is stopping me from functioning or anything like that..Not what I expected. I did mention not much in the way of withdrawal. Its been 2 months now so surely sub is out of my system?

I really doubt withdrawals float about while you take a benzo or 2 or anything else unless its the same substance. I have not used a benzo regularly and only for couple of weeks. As long as the sub was purging out of my body was my main aim. I only took low dose short opiates for couple of weeks but not daily. I have stopped them already. I did get a few sweats but that's about it.

I do have a fast metabolism and am pretty athletic or thin, I exercise a lot so maybe that is why I am not feeling endorphin depleted as others at this stage?

I was never higher then 1.5mg since middle 2009, even was down to 0.7 at 1 one point. I did do decent taper where I did not feel much withdrawals then either except only when I was going under 0.9, then was stabilized after 5-6 days. I stopped at 0.5 for about a week and then took 0.3/.25 for 2 days and jumped...


Top
 Profile  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:35 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 29
I dont understand... Youve been off sub for a 2 months but havent had any opiates or benzos for a week it says in your first post? Suboxone is also an opiate. You were using opiates to get off suboxone? What was the opiate ? This all just seems a bit backwards. The worst may be yet to come. But who knows, maybe you were lucky


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:56 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
Yep off sub for 2 months used low dose opiates for couple of weeks since jump sparingly. Have stopped any sort opiate for over a week now and still not much in the way of withdrawal. I head using opiates cuts the sub withdrawals in half? who knows... I am slowly feeling emotions coming back but nothing much physical nor any depression. Have some sleep issues but I can deal with that with some exercise and a muscle relaxer now and then but have not used those for a while now. Never had a problem with opiates or benzos in the past..

Maybe its combination of luck, exercise, diet, food, low sub dose maintenance, no prior depression or anxiety issues and determination.. Or maybe worst is yet to come? who knows man. But 2 months out surely the worst of sub withdrawals is over? I can function, I can jog, I can eat, have no toilet issues and am not doing too bad in energy wise either.

I want to point out I was using the text (subutex) not suboxone, I hear the nalaxone in suboxone has added side affects? who knows...Well am 2 months out and have not had much in the way of withdrawals at all, am actually bit shocked. Now mentally I do not know if worst is to come but it can only keep getting better the longer am off sub and everything else...Have used nothing the last week or so...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:43 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1454
Are you sure you're 2 months off subutex already? On Aug 21st you said you were 20 days off sub. That makes it a month.. but maybe there's some funny math in there I am not aware of. Regardless, sub withdrawals are actually pretty mild if you're on a low dose and taper correctly which is sounds like you got down pretty low. Why you're not having withdrawal symptoms from the morhphine, I can't say. Did you taper off that?

Attitude, diet & lifestyle certainly do play in role, IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:46 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
It was early July I got off subs, then used low dose opiates sparingly for couple of weeks until August something. I probably meant to say my last day of opiates was that specific date. I do remember I stopped sub in early July because I had written it down. I must have got confused myself, maybe this is a side affect coming off subs? who knows.

Nothing much in the way of low opiate withdrawals except minor sweats, but clonidine covered that. I did taper down the opiates but they were so low and took them every other day I don't think I needed to taper them.. The only bothersome symptom is restlessness but it isn't too bad because I have never managed to go a night without sleep, or a day.. I am just wishing I will not get it tough down the road, this PAWS concept is kind of freaking me out because I never had them in the past. All I do know know is I have not felt much in the way of withdrawal the past 2 months at all. Maybe it is a combo of a lot of things but I have stopped all substances for over a week now and still nothing to worry about, well not pshycal anyway.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:27 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:42 am
Posts: 4140
I think that the best thing you can do to avoid PAWS at this point is to not obsess about it. Just stay really busy and avoid thinking about it as much as you can. I definitely wouldn't spend a lot of time posting on a thread about it. Unless you were just posting to brag about your lack of withdrawals in the first place ;)

Amy

Moderator

_________________
Done is better than perfect!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:06 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Wed May 01, 2013 10:41 am
Posts: 29
why were you prescribed the subutex to begin with? or did I miss that part
'


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:32 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
It was for a back pain, which I first disagreed with the doc about being prescribed sub. I did use some opiates prior to that but not in that bracket of full blown addiction, never used opiates daily and never went through withdrawal for more then 1 day.

I am not bragging about lack of withdrawals but am actually somewhat concerned, I have heard stories of delayed onset of withdrawals or this yucky depression creeping up year later because of the half life of subs getting stuck around. I never had these problems before so am hoping that will play a role here.

So another day of the same feelings, no depression, no exhilarating pain, no headaches. no sweats etc. Just that restless legs crap but I again slept tonight. I go jogging everyday and have a bubble bath just before bed, I did use klonopin and sparingly a week ago.

I am slowly feeling mentally clear, slowly getting small emotions, I know many people get this the first week or 2? well mine seem to be coming on slowly, but I am not in physical withdrawal or feeling mentally depressed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:25 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:02 pm
Posts: 1342
Location: West Tennessee
Hi Tammy,

If I were you I would just be happy that I was able to taper and jump with minimal WD symptoms. It sounds like you are doing well, and feeling pretty good. Be thankful! From what I understand, you were never on a very high dose of sub, and didn't have much of an addiction history. Mostly just dependence from being on opiates for back pain for an extended period? It would seem that you would be less likely to suffer PAWS than a person who was on high doses of suboxone for a long period of time. I know that many people, including Dr. Junig, do not believe the length of time on suboxone effects the rate of PAWS occurance at all. But it seems only natural that lower doses wouldn't cause as much trouble as higher doses right? Obviously, that's just my completely uneducated opinion...LOL.

Don't sit around worrying about something that may or may not happen. Just be thankful for the fact that you are feeling well, and expect to have that continue. I believe that alot of people expect PAWS to hit, and when normal life happens they attribute their feelings to PAWS instead of just normal mood fluctuations. It's kind of like a placebo effect KWIM?

You are doing well. Don't listen to all the people who preach doom and gloom...as you said before, everyone is different. Just because one person has trouble it doesn't mean you will.

_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:56 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:39 am
Posts: 4028
Location: Sitting at my computer
PAWS, from everything I've experienced, seen and read, doesn't pop up out of the blue. PAWS usually follows the acute wd stage, hence the name Post Acute Withdrawl Syndrome. I have seen a few occasions where someone quits opiates and goes straight into PAWS, though.

If you're two weeks out, I'm going to say you're in the clear.

As far as depression creeping up a year after being off Suboxone and people attributing that to Suboxone and its long half life, I don't buy it. The depression is more likely the result of them not learning how to live life without drugs. ie. a dry drunk.

_________________
Be kind to yourself. Our character defects do NOT define who we are!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:24 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
Thanks guys. I do keep myself out and about and continue to exercise, it does help mentally a lot that is I can say.

Romeo I am 2 months clear of sub. The only meds I take now are non-opiates, such as an occasional ropinirole and clonidine few times a week.

I am hoping that when I stayed on low dose sub for the past couple of years and tapering down had it's benefits.

I can slowly feel a distant between now and my sub days. I actually enjoy this freedom now, not having to worry about next dose or waking in the morning which I hated. I enjoy television more and music. I can feel the sub slowly stripping away from my receptors, but at the same time I do not feel like I am withdrawing from them. The most bothersome symptom is restless legs but surprisingly I still managed to go to sleep every night or day since I jumped from subs, and not always by taking a med..

Can exercise and jogging really counter attack low dopamine which produces restless legs? is it also correct to assume any exercise before stopping sub or opiates can help the endorphins on a decent level after stopping sub and opiates? maybe that is why I do not feel endorphine depleted now? even though am still continuing to exercise I am just a little surprised I stil have some endorphins running about post sub. I was working out 4 hours daily the last 6 years.


Top
 Profile  
 
   
PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2013 4:28 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
Hi everyone, its over 2 months now and am feeling back to my old self. I did not get much withdrawals symptoms at all, even my sleep has returned, I was expecting to feel bad but surprisingly I feel almost normal, I feel decent. Whether it was because I stayed on a low sub dose for most of sub use mixed with exercise that I did not get it bad I shudder to guess. Maybe I just got a decent endocrine system? is it true some people get off easier then others? I never had PAWS before and never went through much acute withdrawals in the past, so am not really use to it so maybe that is why I expected to be bad but it wasnt?

there is hope for you guys. I was on sub for 6 to 7 years, and now I actually wonder why I stayed on sub that long? but I made it off and it has not been too bad at all. It is becoming a distant memory now, that is a positive, it shows I am moving on now.

Keep going.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:12 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
So its coming up to 3 months almost and I feel pretty much decent. I feel like how I felt before I went on taking sub. I still have not had much in the way of withdrawal or PAWS. My mind feels clearer, am sleeping 8-9 hours every night, even 10 on the days I work out, which I am continuing to do. I really feel staying on low doses of sub and tapering does actually have a bearing on withdrawals and PAWS.. Maybe I also got lucky? maybe I have a strong immune system and decent endocrine field?

When I read other peoples experience who are month, 2 months 3 months out and are feeling horrible/PAWS I really question the dose they stopped from and other factors. I admit I was sceptical about tapering at first but it seems to me going cold turkey from sub results in long PAWS? maybe sub is not meant to be for someone going cold turkey and is too powerful to go cold turkey or even jumping from 2mgs results in long PAWS?..I think since sub is sticky to the receptors that cold turkey on subs isn't like going cold turkey on other opiates where its over with quickly though harsh, with subs they decay slowly, that is why I believe for most people cold turkey or a minor taper only results in long PAWS IMHO.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:24 pm 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:12 pm
Posts: 26
What I also believe helps me is eating vegetables, cutting out sugar and drinking lots of water. I also exercise daily which I always was when I was on subs too, I think that is why I did not get depressed like most others do.

I am so glad I have not had it rough, am also glad I am not in any substances.. Still have to pinch myself that its been relatively easy compared to what I was worried about and how other people seem to suffer for months and months.. I even have energy...Motivation is not 100% but hey even sober people do not always have motivation every single day, hell if this is PAWS then I take this any day, this isn't bad as I thought it will be .

If am feeling better each day coming up to almost 3 months does that mean I won't have PAWS and won't get worse? like I said am sleeping great, have energy and feel mentally clear.. I hardly remember much those years when I was on subs, it is like the fog has parted and I feel myself, that can only mean it can get better and better from now on in and not worse..

To all those tapering I am living proof it can be done, sure I took an unorthodox method at the start of my acute phase but my main worry was the aftermath and PAWS, which to me so far has not happened, or I at least believe they are so low grade I am not noticing them..I do not have any anxiety, no depression, no fatigue or anything like that. Maybe some do get off easy, but all I know is this has not been hard at all and I was on sub for many years.. I also didnt get any colds or fevers like many get when they get off sub or opiates, I know they make us feel numb and our immune systems have to cope with having no opiates hence of coughs, cold, aches and pains etc but I have not even got these illnesses. I must be doing something right..

If there is any advice I give to you folks what I think helped me is that I have a decent diet full of vegs, lean meat, egg whites, green tea and lots of water, working out vigorous much as you can, motivating yourself to do things, even a walk around the block, self-motivating yourself that you got this and your better and bigger then anxiety and other symptoms if you have them or not. I do believe taking low doses of subs the last several years played a role...You also have man up and if your a woman like me then woman up hehe. I have a positive mindset and a loving supportive family which I believe is vital in any kind of detox.

Age apparently plays a huge role too though am not in my 20s anymore, am in my early 30s, which my doc said is really no different to mid to late 20s, its when people touch 35 that things really start to get rough...I am however pretty slim and not self-concious, thats not to say am arrogant but am quite confident in my own skin, that also helps the aftermath too I believe...Trust me folks the mind is a powerful tool, you need to self-motivate yourself into thinking positive..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:12 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 11:27 am
Posts: 1454
I too was pleasantly surprised after 6+ years on maintenance. I didn't even wean down as much as I could. Even through my acute withdrawal it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, and while I did have paws, it really was just annoying at best. I think if I had exercised more and taken some supplements, I would have felt better. It really does take positive thinking though. If you sit around cursing everything and thinking about how miserable your life is, well, you're going to feel pretty miserable. If you look at it half glass full and see it for what it is, constantly getting better, it's not such a big deal.

I do believe the longer and better the taper, the minimal acute & post acute withdrawal symptoms. My husband and I jumped side by side. He went down to practically nothing and felt very little symptoms at all. If I were to ask him if he had "paws" he say "what are paws". He jumped and never looked back, or even thought about his time detoxing. It was just a non-issue for him so he didn't spend any time analyzing it, you know? He was on it for exactly the same length as I was including methadone two years before that, so I firmly believe tapering low is the way to go.

There will be hurdles in your life down the road, which can sometimes be harder for addicts to navigate, due to our usual methods of coping being off the table. I believe difficulty dealing with hurdles can be blamed on PAWs all too easily. It is my opinion that if you're feeling great and almost normal at 3 months, you'll be fine and if I were you, I'd stop obsessing about PAWs all together.


Last edited by tinydancer on Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 9:47 am 
Offline
Average Poster
Average Poster

Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:08 am
Posts: 15
Tammy and Dancer, its good to hear success stories. I have been off for about 2 weeks and I stopped withdrawing after day 3. Honestly, if people like you were to post more on this forum a lot of people would be off subs. I think the forum tends to exaggerate the withdrawals ands its length. Not that you don't get it but if you taper down to .250 you'll barely feel shit. I had ppl tell me the initial discomfortwould be 10 days and only after 10 days would I recover. It was only 3 days and its been all upstream. I'm glad I didn't extend my dosage and taper more. Life off subs is so much better than tapering and extending my dose below .250.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:37 am 
Offline
Super Poster
Super Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:11 pm
Posts: 119
It's interesting you say that because this is the only forum I go to if I want to feel inspired about my taper. Other sites have me scared out of my wits with the overdramatic w/d paws accounts.

I would take into account that this forum is very pro-maintenance. There are not a lot of sites that offer that perspective and support. Many people have no other choice but maintenance and they deserve to have a place sensitive to their situation.

_________________
"Never feed him a lot. Never more than a spot! Or something may happen. You never know what!"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 21, 2013 1:27 pm 
Offline
One Month or More
One Month or More

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 8:26 am
Posts: 30
Forgive my ignorance, but what is "Paws?" I assume it's an acronym involving with withdrawal.

Also, what are typical withdrawal symptoms? I heard about insomnia and something called "restless leg.". What are some others? I expect to be weened of subox completely within a couple of months and I just wanted to know the worst of it.

Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group