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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:11 pm 
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Hi my name is Jane and I'm almost completely off of my suboxone. I am currently on 1/8 of a mg once a day. I feel like if I just stop taking a small amount I should be fine and not experience any physical withdrawals, but when I do try, I feel some withdrawals. I don't know if it is actual withdrawals or if it's my mind making me think it is real because I'm nervous to just stop. If anyone knows anything about this your reply would be greatly appreciated. Thank you


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:04 am 
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Just curious how long you have taken the sub for and about how many hours after stopping does it take for you to start noticing the withdrawal feeling? That dose is so small and the fact that you are really only absorbing around 25% of that with sublingual dosing makes me wonder how you could even be getting enough of a dose into your blood stream to cause any significant effects to cause withdrawal but Id say as long as some amount of buprenorphine is getting into your system that you will feel some withdrawal. Im very scared to stop too and I know how the mind can play tricks on you as well but certain effects like stomach issues, restless legs/arms/body, cold sweats where you feel like you can literally smell the toxins seeping out of your pores, extreme fatigue etc that can't just be chalked up to your mind so if you have one or all of those symptoms starting anywhere from as early as 36 hours or if youve been taking them for a long time as long as 72-96 hours before the real symptoms start then its safe to say it isnt all in your mind. Fear of withdrawal sucks though, Ive had it ever since I got on subs and its scared me into not attempting to quit them even though I want too and get lots of negative side effects.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:52 am 
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Hi Jane

Welcome to the forum! I also have questions LOL How long have you been on sub? Did you taper down over time? How long were you on your DOC before getting on sub? What w/d's do you feel and how long after the last dose?

There are a lot of great people here who can give you support. Have you read around the forum?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:36 am 
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Hey Jane :)

Welcome and glad u found us. I personally don't have any experience getting low and coming off sub but if u take a look at the thread another member has here, they're down to a very very low dose also and doing a liquid taper. And they also are experiencing some withdrawal symptoms. U should go take a look at that thread. Its under the Stopping Suboxone and the name of the thread is about liquid taper and the poster is EvolvedRevolver. U two are on such a low dose that u can def use each other's support. Be sure u read it Jane, it always makes me feel better knowing someone else is going through exactly what I am. Keep us posted on ur progress.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:09 pm 
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I've been on subs for about 14 months, yes I tapered over time...my doctor started me at 2mg since I knew that was all I needed at the time, I fell back into my DOC for a short time but long enough to get sick...anyway, I was on heroin for 10 years before taking subs the correct way. Im feeling anxiety, upset stomach, cold sweats and my arms cramps up...it's not full on like when you're on a higher dose, but it's def enough to not sleep and have no energy.

And to the second person who replied to me (idk how to find your names lol) thank you so much for suggesting that to me, I will without a doubt check Her posts out! Really appreciate all the help! I keep asking my doctor but of course they want your money and to stretch it out for as long as possible. Thanks again guys!


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 4:18 pm 
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Thank you for all the info buprecision, that helped me so much. Also tiki and jennjenn you are all really giving me a lot of info I wasn't aware of. After reading what buprecision said I'm starting to think more now that it's my mind playing tricks on me. I hope it is because then I can keep telling myself it isn't real and I'll ne able to push through and I'll be fine lol


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:48 am 
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Did you feel crappy at all during your taper like you are feeling now or did this only come about when you completely tried to stop? Its definitely an achievement to be able to taper down as low as you have though, for me personally I get to a certain point and can't go lower (right around .5-.6mgs) and just have to bite the bullet because I end up doing good for awhile and getting down to a bit less and sticking to it but then I'll somehow always back slide and end up throwing my progress away. I think im gonna jump from .6 in the next week or two I hope I am not gonna feel like Im on deaths door because Ive been on the stuff for years, I wish I was smart enough to get off it earlier on like you are.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:05 am 
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It hasn't really happened while I was tapering down because the doctor had me do it so slowly. yea I do the same thing you said you've done too...get so low and then throw away progress...I have a hard time with that too. I did it in the beginning of this months dose. I didn't do it last month tho and I still felt shitty...I'm gonna see how long I can go without taking my sub today. I'll let u know what happens


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:18 am 
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Hi Jane, I jumped at around .2 mgs/day after a fairly quick taper, about 25% less Subs every 7 or 8 days.

I jumped by throwing away my remaining my Subs one night (i.e. burning that bridge), which instantly made me feel more committed to going Subs free -- no real choice at that point.

My recollection of the jump experience is a little conflicted: the first couple days sucked, by day 4 or 5 I felt well enough to go out and socialize, I went through several weeks of zero sleep nights, but managed to keep working through my early detox. My jump and early taper isn't something I would want to go through again, but on the whole it wasn't that bad, certainly not nearly as bad as I thought it might be.

I was highly motivated by a desire to finally get 100% clean (and recovered from that hopeless state of mind and body), after 15 years of opiate addiction, which I think made it easier to get over the rough patches. There is a Plan B: I've read a thread on this forum by a guy who tapered down to something like .03 mg/days (might have been less actually), before doing what he described as an absolutely pain-free jump.

Good luck.

-- ji

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:14 pm 
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Glad johnny finally provided some added info for you Schwep. I don't know if it's the 1/8 of one mg that is throwing everyone or what but I can just about assure you if you are at least at the 24 hour mark - for certain 36 hours after last dose that you feel withdrawls it is most certainly not in your head. As johnny said he had little to no sleep for several weeks!!!! His dose was only a little higher than yours although his taper was faster. This board is pretty full of detailed expierences showing it often takes 14-21 days for 80% of these symptoms to pass and about 30 days to return to 90%. Sleep patterns seem to take the longest to return.

Bup is more potent than many have thought and 0.125 is actually more medication than many think it is. I will add that from what I have observed the discomfort doesn't seem to get any less if you taper below where you are currently at. No matter what dose you stop, you will likly feel some withdrawl. Again as Johnny said he was back into the world within a few days and I'm sure his withdraw intencity was nowhere near oxy or heroin withdrawl levels but it's still there - even at your low dose. That seems to be fact and not in anyone's head.

Hope that helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 3:10 pm 
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Hi Shweppps,

How long have you been at your current dose? After how long do you begin to feel the symptoms you've described?

I'm currently at .12MG using the liquid taper method. Jennjenn was kind enough to mention my diary thread previously, which I hope you find helpful. Some advice for you - The way I tend to think of it myself is once you stop suboxone it's like a doorway to a long hallway and at the end is another doorway and finally a field of green grass and the sun is out. That first door is tough to open and when you're in that hallway there's many things - storms, winds, all forces of nature trying to push you back through the first door and slam it in your face. Though internally we have the ability to walk through that hallway and come out the other side into the open field unscathed. It's not going to be an easy process but you need to really want to come out the other side more than your desire to feel better "right now".

I've never had to WD from a full agonist before - I don't have a frame of reference there, but what I can say is I've skipped days on suboxone as early as 6MG all the way down to .5 for two years. Not just one day, sometimes 3. I've also in the past jumped at 1MG. I can tell you without a doubt that currently what you're feeling is nowhere near as bad as either of those things. I don't know how bad jumping at .12 or less for me personally will be. I don't think it will be that bad. I've debated on skipping days again to prep myself for what's coming. Assuming things go well and I do end up skipping days I might just continue to stop from there.

Here's what's definitely in your mind - the fear of feeling crappy. It's a step in recovery. Something we have to go through with. Once you learn to accept that, its easier to come to realize that it's just the beginning of when things begin to become better.

evolved.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:18 pm 
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Great and valuable comments, evolver. There is not a lot of scientific data out on sub to start with and next to nothing about stopping. I very much agree a lot is in the mind and our fear - at least as severity goes. I'm just as sure there are real symptoms as well. If you do try skipping days or stopping please post your expierence. There is no way to control for the fact that you already think it won't be bad but even so many will find your reports valuable. I know I will.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:25 pm 
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I have been 100% FREE of suboxone for 2 months.

And it was almost totally painless.

Heres how I did it with slow tapering, Iboga, and healthy living.

Right off the bat let me say that SLOW TAPERING IS KEY. I mean really really really slow.

After reading all the horror stories online of people trying to kick subs, I decided to share my journey

History: Heroin addict on and off for 3 years- Got on suboxone to kick my habit- Suboxone user for 4 years

Started Suboxone at 4mgs. Stayed on this dose for a little over a year.

I weened myself off of Suboxone FOR THREE YEARS.

I know we all have different chemistry, but I have to say I firmly believe this was the key to my (relatively) painless success getting off of suboxone.

I cannot remember the exact increments I used over the 3 years, but lets just say I took it very very VERY slow. Every time I reduced my dose, I would stay at the new dose for 3-10 months. I used my intuition to determine when to reduce my dosage, and listened to my body. I was not in a rush.

When I would reduce a dosage, I would always begin by doing an "every other day dosage."
One day at old dosage, one day at new dosage. After about 2-3 weeks I would stay at the new dosage.

In the beginning I was taking it a little fast, and this was when I suffered the most.

Symptoms-

*Dysphoria

*Anxiety

*Low energy

I pretty much watched netflix movies for 3 months :)

If I could do it over again I would've taken it slower. Those 3 months did considerable damage to my work, my relationships and my self esteem.

After that I took it extremely slow and can honestly say I did not experience any W/D symptoms. If I did they were so minor I didnt think to attribute it to the suboxone taper.

Eventually I was at .5 mgs and decided to make the jump because my doctor said it should be fine. (Haha. Suboxone doctors don't know SHIT about the reality of using this drug as many on these forums can attest)

I lasted 2 days. Two days of insomnia, restless legs, intense anxiety, clamy skin, diarrhea etc. It was rough.

I got my prescription and continued to taper.

After a total of 4 years on suboxone. 3 of which I was slowly slowly tapering down from 4 mgs, I finally made it to .125. To do this kind of tapering to must get the film- not the pills. I used tiny sewing scissors to cut the 2 mg strips into 16 pieces.

It is essential to note that during these 4 years I completely turned my life around. I started eating healthy, meditating, doing inner work and taking care of my body. This was probably a HUGE factor in my success.

I was on the .125 dose for 3 months when I randomly got the opportunity to do Iboga.

I had wanted to do it to get off suboxone but knew that all the clinics require AT LEAST 2 weeks of being off of suboxone before giving you Iboga. This is because of the opiate potentiation affect (which can cause opiate overdose because Iboga makes Opiates much much stronger in the brain) and also because the suboxone will "block" the Iboga from accessing the opiate sites.

I had been anticipating WITHDRAWL HELL from suboxone- mostly due to sites like this and horror stories of users with horrible w/d symptoms. Also because of the 2 days of hell I experienced when I tried to jump off of sub at .5 mgs

The idea of going through 2 weeks of hell in order to take Iboga was unappealing. I tried to plan my life accordingly but wasn't entirely motivated to organize a 2 weeks in hell vacation for myself.

In a totally random and divine act of grace from the universe, I was given an opportunity to receive Iboga in a ceremony. The shaman was comfortable giving me the Iboga even though I was still on suboxone.

Yes, this was risky and dangerous. I didnt know what was going to happen and YES, I was afraid I might die. But the opportunity seemed so divinely guided and I was so ready to get off of subs that I said YES.

I did not take my suboxone that morning. We drank the Iboga at 1pm. And I have not had suboxone since!

I believe the dose I was given was much much lower than what is given to opiate addicts in Iboga clinics though I'm not totally sure.

I know I started with 2gms and took about 5 total over the course of 12 hrs.

I microdosed at 1/2 gm per day for one week after.

I can't say if it was the Iboga or the fact that I was on such a low dose or both. But I can say I have not had suboxone for 2 months.

For the first 10 days Suboxone free I experienced minor symptoms that would come and go with varying degrees of intensity. It was really not that bad. Plus I was so excited to be off of suboxone I didn't mind. It helped immensely that I was able to go on retreat, away from work and life and take time to myself to rest and heal.

Main symptoms:

-Anxiety: (Waves of it that would come and go for the first 4 days. It was intense but manageable with breathing and relaxation.)

-Restless Legs: I would get it at night when I would lay down to sleep. Surprisingly I didn't have any insomnia! I was shocked by this as insomnia was a main w/d symptom I had experienced every time I tried to quit heroin. The restless legs would also sometimes persist during the day where I would feel wobbly on my feet and like my legs were made of lead. Walking felt like a chore. Again, this was NOT severe but it was uncomfortable. This lasted on and off for about 10 days. Massaging my legs was the only was I found relief.

-Tiredness: I think this is to be expected. For 3-4 days I had really low energy and napped a lot. Again, really not that bad!

-Brain Fog: This only happened for the first 2 days or so. I would suddenly be overcome with a case of the stupids. I couldn't formulate sentences or speak intelligently. It was weird, ultimately I was able to laugh about it. It scared me a bit because I feared it would last a long time. It passed after a couple of days.

After about 10 days all these symptoms were gone.

Now, its been two months and for the most part I feel great. I have noticed sometimes I feel a little bit of dysphoria which I believe is a PAWS symptom. Its not constant but it is noticeable. I'm also getting stressed easier. Or stressful situations are causing me more anxiety. I'm experiencing this as increased heart rate, feelings of tension in my body and inability to focus. This has NOT been constant but it has been uncomfortable. Exercise and meditation and taking time to relax have been crucial.

Supplements I take every day:

Nervous System Tonic (by herb farms)

Valerian Root or Kava Kava (by herb farms)

5htp

Probiotics

B12

Diet is mostly raw. I strongly believe that eating fruits and veggies helps to repair the brain. I notice a direct connection to my moods when I eat well.

Am I experiencing PAWS? Yes, I believe I am. Is it that bad? No. Is a healthy lifestyle important to manage these symptoms? I would say it is Essential.

Ultimately, being in recovery for drug addiction has forced me to take care of my body mind and spirit because I was so fucked up that I had to heal.

THIS IS SUCH A BLESSING!

And for anyone who is dreading the process of recovery- I would strongly urge you to see this as an opportunity to develop a healthy lifestyle. What starts out as a regimen to heal your body and brain from addiction can become a way of life that is deeply nourishing.

Thats my story. Peace. <3


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:26 pm 
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Thank you everyone for your help and support! I am currently taking 1/16 of a 2mg strip, which comes out to 1/8mg every 3rd day...on the 3rd day I have very bad restless arms and legs, and cannot sleep and slight stomach issues, but I'm doing great! Each time I take another piece on that 3rd day, the next 2 days aren't as bad...I Just took a piece today and cut a little bit off of it so it's a little less than 1/8mg... I have about 7 pieces left and I'm going to keep weening down each piece from here on out. Once I'm out of the big pieces I'm going to just end it there, and if there's a day where I cannot take the arm and leg pains (hopefully I won't have any by that time) then I will take a sliver here and there of what was cut off of the last pieces. So far I'm doing well and I'll keep posting! Sorry it took me so long to get back to you guys....wish me luck!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:42 pm 
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Sounds like a good plan to me. As long as you are steadily going down, who cares how long it takes! I wish you the best of luck. Be sure to keep us posted on your progress.

Q

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