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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:54 am 
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Ok I have been srewing around with tapering and up and down using no using,... I am SICK of the BS! I last used H around 3:00 however my last 2 uses were to just get me thru the day. No getting high. I worked today, made a good deal of money. I could have easily called my dealer and scored, but I aint messin around NO MORE! I am ready to get back to life and back to reality. I sort of feel like I did a years alternative therapy, heroin therapy. I mean, I do not regret it because I worked thru A LOT of shit. I mean A LOT! I made ammends and I paid off bills, got rid of people that were doing me wrong, I have been the most content happy and stable I have ever been. I have stayed single (a real triumph for this girl ) I am sitting in a GREAT place in life, EXCEPT the heroin. So it's the last thing to FIX!
I gotta tell you, I recently purchased a hypnosis download for overcoming heroin addiction and I have been faithfully listening to it for a week now.Everynight before bed. Usually I fall asleep listening to it. I swear to Buddah this shit is working. Literally the day after I started it, I had recognized something that the recording said I would on the next day. Anyway many of you likely do not believe in this stuff but I was willing to try ANYTHING... except sub.. ha ha.. Anyway I am gonna try to go CT but will likely use subs. (had a half to a G a day smoking habit for about a year non-stop) I have like 3-4 8mg strips and a few 2 mg strips. I think I can kick this just fine. I am happy yo have the strength and will to finally put an end to the maddness. MAN I have spent a pretty penny on my alternative therapy. I would likely have spent a lot on psych doctors and meds, anti this and anti that. Anyway, I AM ready. I have a positive outlook.. (well, right at the moment ha ha) I made arrangements for my oldest son to take my youngest to school in the morning. I have the entire weekend off and my kids will be gone. I gots me blankie. My beach towel in my bed to soak up the sweat. A barf bucket next to my bed just in case. My baby kitty kat is laying next to me and my other 2 will be here once they find out I really feel like shit. (Yes, I am a "CAT" person) Once I am spewing out of both ends, tears streaming down my face, goosebumpy flesh and chills... Ya'all know, All the lovely and totally EARNED symptoms I must endure, before I can safely induce myself onto good ole suboxone. Something I NEVER thought I would EVER do again... Well, they say, "Never say never" but like a fool, I did and looky where I am at. ALL MY OWN DOING! I will post tomorrow. I will surrely need the support. I PROMISE myself and all of you my forum friends, I AM DONE WITH HEROIN...(I didn't say never) So long old pal... You have NOT got the best of this kiddo.. I AM WINNING this time....Off to listen to my Hypnosis download... and drift to sleep as long as I can stand.....BLESSINGS... TO ALL, especially the struggling....Kimberly


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:34 am 
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Hi sweet16,

I don't know you very well but I see that you've been around for quite a while. Hi! I'm so relieved to hear that you are finally going to induce. Honestly, I cringed a little inside every time I read about your "heroin-therapy taper plan." Only because I tried it many times and it's damn near impossible. I take that back, I think it is actually impossible. LOL

Anyway, you know everyone is here for you, rooting you on. Let us know how it goes!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:55 am 
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Yes please let us know how it goes! I wish you nothing but the best!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:09 am 
Hey, i think you can certainly get over the worst of the physical withdraws of the smack with the subs you got. It's strange to see how people who use hydrocodone and weaker opiates claim to need 16mg's of sub and such. But the most crafty H users seem to be onto something because i've seen a few smack users only need 2-4mg's of sub to get them over the worst of the physical withdraw symptoms. I'd say use what you got by using 2-4mg's for the worst of the withdraw. Then just try stretch it out by taking tiny tiny amounts after the worst physical withdraw symptoms are over.

I think you can definitely beat the physical withdraws. But what are you going to do after that? Mentally the healing is going to only take time to get over it all. After the subs are gone the only way to get back to 100% is to stop it all. First thing is first, get past those creepy crawly, yawning tears streaming down your face, barfing, ETC feelings!

Kick some ass and make a plan as to what your next step is after the physical withdraw is done.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:42 pm 
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Ok I woke up at 6am and felt like death. Went back to sleep and up at 9am. Could not take anymore so I took 2mg......nothing took another 2mg.....NOTHING!!!!! :shock: ok so I go back to bed and woke up now took another 2 that is 6 mg. FUCK ME! I must have had one hell of a habit bc 6mg does not touch my symptoms,,I fell like hell. I need help. I guess call my sub doc a beg he let me back in.. DO I take more? IDK what to do. y cats are destroying me spotless pressine apt. (on h I am on task as all hell) hate myself for doing this....I want off sooooooo bad. I tried I tried to taper.. Man this is no joke. Will. THANK you for your words. Do I need to take more? I am on the verge of calling my dealer...I have taken a total of 6 mg since 9ish AM... I need advice
Please and thank you


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:46 pm 
Ugh, i know exactly what your going through. I switched back from fentanyl last year to subs and it was hell getting back on subs. I remember i took 24mg's after trying to take smaller doses. It diddn't work good, at all. Heres the thing i noticed. It diddn't matter if i took 4mg's or 24mg's. I still felt like HELL..

If i was you, i woulden't take anymore. Heres what i think happened to me. Since the fentanyl JACKED my tolerance up so much. It diddn't matter how much sub i took that first day. I believe the ceiling effect in subs is what stopped me from feeling any relief. Personally i think that after 4mg's i felt no more relief even after 24mg's. If you need to and it makes you even feel mentally better. take another 2mg's. But don't take anymore as you really want to conserve as much as possible.

Try to understand that do due to the ceiling effect. In my opinion. It doesn't matter how much more you take. You have to just push through this by any other means necessary. Except for more smack!! I believe you have to left your tolerance lower done to that in which bupe will become your new baseline tolerance. Your tolerance is way up there it seems. And after about 1 or 2 days of taking a few small doses of bupe. You will be ok! Seriously, the next 48 hours are crucial. Don't get anymore dope. Just try to fight this. Try to tell yourself within the next day or so. You will be over ALOT of the physical w/d's. Also conserving your bupe will provide for a very smooth landing. I've seen people drop off dope with 2 subs. They would stay clean and at least conquer the physical aspect of withdraws.

Let me know how your doing


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:12 pm 
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The great and knowledgeable Dr. Will everyone!!! No matter the issue he has the answers!! Step right up!! Over three months experience as an addict!! Come one come all!!! Forget about those pesky doctors that don't know anything about addiction or Suboxone!!! Will is here to help you with all your addiction and suboxone needs!!

*will is not a doctor and usually says some crazy stuff. Take all advice at your own risk. Dont let him scare you off suboxone or tell you it's horrible. Save your own life and don't listen to this continuing guru anti suboxone crap!!


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:09 pm 
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This is a place for support not to put others down.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:49 pm 
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Well after waiting 18 hrs. at 9AM, I took 1mg of sub. nada...nothing....so I took another 1mg.... still, nada.....shit. I try to go to sleep and wait.. I sleep (sorta) till 11am and I feel like DEATH by this time that 2mg didnt do shit. I take a 2mg strip....nothing......another 2mg strip...NOTHING! Here I am at 6 mg of subs in me and I am STILL feeling like HELL! What the shit! Do I take more? Now I wonder, "Am I feeling anxiety from taking sub too soon?" I know many, most, well ALL of the ppl here induce on some 16mg+ but I KNOW the real strength of suboxone and IMO 16mg. is a rediculously huge amount of Bupe. Anyway, In hind sight I should have taken a 8mg right out of the gate. But instead I called me drug dealer. Yeah. I fucked this whole induction all to hell... I am a failure today. I guess I need plan B & C. I ended up telling husband #2 who I have a child with, (i have 3 ex husbands in all, #2 & I, really work at having a good relationship for the kid). Needless to say he was BLOWN AWAY... He thought I was clean. Up until NOW NOBODY and I mean NOT A SOUL except me and my dealer knew about my drug abuse. I have painted a pretty little picture of what my life is. I have so much and so many depending on me every single day, I even volunteer 3+ days a week. I could not possibly accomplish it sober. Where would I find the energy?Oddly enough H gives me energy like speed does nmost people.. I know, I am a twisted thang. Anyway. I have a bunch of dope and 3, 8mg. of sub. I want OFF heroin. I did take 6 mg. today so the dope isnt getting me high. WHat do I do? Keep doing some suboxone? I really and truly need and want off heroin. Only a few of you on here knows what it is like to have a big heroin habit. And what it is like to withdrawl from such large doses. I saw one poster mention it is possible to take small doses of sub so it builds up in the system all while still using so the transition is not so brutal. and I mean HOLY CRAP BRUTAL does not even come close to what I went thru for a few hrs. this AM. I drove 1 hour to get dope and the whole time I was sweatting so bad that I was completely drenched by the time I arrived. I sat in my truck and smoked dope the minute I got it and it barely made a dent in my withdrawl. Likely because of the opiate blocker in sub.

So here I sit 6 mg of sub. in me a bit of dope. When do I take more sub? Can I just continue to build it up in my system for a few days and then drop the dope completely. DO I just go to a doctor and hopefully find a knowledgable one? I have my old sub doctor whom I got on with just fine. I do not know what to do here guys. I DO know I CAN not go thru what I did this AM again anytime soon.
Please do not judge guys. I want off heroin. DESPIRATELY. I have so much depending on me that I need somehow to induce. I just dont know. I feel the doctors do not know nearly what ya all know especially the ex-heavy H users...Please guide me...


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:57 pm 
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It's also a forum for truth. Not overblown opinions. It's here to save lives... Not scare people off or creep them out before starting just so they can relapse or use other substances. I just have a really hard time listening to all this whining about doctor's and suboxone being terrible..... Or how to stay clean or do things right from people that are still using illegal drugs or not in a recovery program of any kind...... I just don't get it..... This forum is but a shadow of what it once was..... Sad.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:56 pm 
MovieMaker1 wrote:
It's also a forum for truth. Not overblown opinions. It's here to save lives... Not scare people off or creep them out before starting just so they can relapse or use other substances. I just have a really hard time listening to all this whining about doctor's and suboxone being terrible..... Or how to stay clean or do things right from people that are still using illegal drugs or not in a recovery program of any kind...... I just don't get it..... This forum is but a shadow of what it once was..... Sad.


You realize how condescending you are. This is pathetic. Because i do not like suboxone and am only wishing to help someone. Here goes your sarcastic bullshit. This is coming from a guy who says pot is a relapse and suboxone is less harmful. I hope you realize that IF you had a brain, you might be dangerous. I'm not going to let you get under my skin because i don't enjoy your stupid wonderdrug. What a tough guy you are. Sorry my advice is wrong. Apparently all sub doctors have taken it before and understand REALLY what they are doing. Absolutely pathetic. I'm sorry your so weak, i really am. Sorry you haven't been able to man up.

Making fun of someone who used for 3-4 months. lol, is that a compliment in disguise? I'll take it as so. You want a gold star sticker because you used longer? Ahahahahaha. I apologize about your ignorance on so many discussions. Not all of us can be strong though. It's ok. That's allright, go ahead and dicksize about this. At least i got a combat action badge in the military and about 9 other ribbons i can proudly wear. But hey, good job on using for X amount of years. I'm sure that means alot on skid row somwhere. ::claps::

Sorry i haven't spent however many years you have using. I'm sorry your life was so horrible for that long that you coulden't pull your head out of your ass sooner. I am being serious as a heart attack on this line. Also, discard my advice. Just take suboxone all your life. Who knew you were so smart. Just take suboxone forever! Damn, case closed! I'm going to nominate you for the darwain award. Sadly, your stupidity will eventually be weeded out, hopefully natural selection gets ya.

By the way champ, Just because i was abusing for a couple months doesn't mean i am new to pain pills. I was prescribed pain pills for a couple years. Only really started abusing em for a couple months. Figured a god of recovery may be able to see the difference between using and taking as prescribed. But anyways, Don't you have some saving to do? You go get you hero!


Last edited by will430 on Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:10 pm 
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THANK YOU WILL430. I see what you are saying and it makes sence... I fuc*ed it up already. I could not stand the feelings I was having. I have been on suboxone before and I tapered off over a 6 month period. I did everything perfectly. I was only 3 weeks clean and I let a little temptation get the best of me. I realise you transitioning from Fent you had to wait a lot longer than the 12-24 us H users need to wait. oooooh man what a nightmare. Well I am gonna get better... and try like hell to lower my tollerance and wait the 12 hrs and induce sub only an 8mg right out the gate.. I will likely seek professional help. Possibly my old doctor.
Movie, with all due respect and I believe we all deserve respect here, I already dislike sub. I have been on it once before for 9 months and tapered over a 6 month period. Successfully. I was weak and relapsed. My doctor knew very little about tapering and most everything I gained was from other forum friends opinions and experiences. IT ALL HELPED.. I learned everything I know from my peers. HERE on the forum. Everyone has something to offer.. THEIR OPINION. I take what I feel is valid for ME and appreciate the rest and move on. I am a person whom believes in loving kindness. Whatever beef you have with Will, look inside yourself and find what it is that YOU do, say, or act like that is similar to what you do not like about Will. We all have a bit of the same exact thing in us, that we dispise in others...
Crystal, yes this a support place.. Thank you for reminding us of that. IDK why there can be so much anger at times...We all need support and this is the first and usually ONLY place I get unbiast help. Bless you sister.

Jennicole- reaad your intro. LOVED it! Thank you for caring and posting on my thread. Congrats to you for beating sub. I once was there too, but gave up after only 3 weeks clean. I was tired and weak... GOOD FOR YOU! Lucky you have a man to support you thru this. I guess I am too stubborn to let anyone help me...
Tiny, Thank you so much for your advise. Yes my alternative therapy is cringeworthy... I screwed up.. I will find my way..I must I appreciate you all. Thank you so much...
BTW< YES I AGREE with you movie. I do and will get myself into a recovery program. I tried it my way and failed twice.. So your point IS VALID and I WILL AND MUST do this. Thank you. This forum is a godsend weather a mere shadow of what it once was, change happens... Bless you
I will let ya all know what is up. I am not gonna lie. I am gonna go back to my dirty ways and re-group.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2013 11:48 pm 
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Hi Sweet,

I'm sorry, I just now saw this post.

*sigh*........hmmmmm......

I'd like to see you get back on Suboxone. When you were on Suboxone, you stayed clean, right? I think you should get your butt into a Suboxone doctor.

I know you hated coming off of Suboxone and all that crap, but what you're doing to yourself right now ain't so pretty either.

I wish you'd consider getting yourself back on Suboxone, through a doctor.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:19 am 
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Hey RoMe..... Awwhhhhh.. Yes sir, I was clean on sub. I AM definately going to go to a Sub doctor and get myself clean once again. In fact I will immeadiately call my old doctor on Monday to see if he will treat me again. I will also find myself some sort of therapy. I want, need and MUST get clean. I am sad mad and hurtin right now. Lots and lots of feelings. Ive got sub in me, Ive got heroin in me and im a friggen mess right now. Thank god for this forum and my kittys....Or I'd be totally alone. Which while on H is perfectly fine for me. I am ready to have relationships again and be back in the good. I said it before and I will say it again. I worked thru a lot of shit this past year on drugs, so now I feel that my recovery will be the final thing that sets me on the right path and on into the good life. Thanks for your reply Romeo.. Love ya bro...


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:07 am 
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I saw this post right before I left for dinner tonight. I wanted to reply right then, but couldn't. I thought about you all night.


You are negotiating with chaos for a little sense of satisfaction.
You are negotiating with chaos for a little sense of satisfaction.
You are negotiating with chaos for a little sense of satisfaction.


So, when I was on heroin, I tried inducing on subs a few different times. I was in the same boat as you, thought I had my ducks in row, except my annoying heroin habit. I honestly thought I had it pretty together except for my "dependence" on heroin. Every single time I tried to induce on sub, I didn't last very long. I would go through the agony of waiting.. being sick.. then taking sub, only to still feel like shit! Without any real, tangible distance between you and heroin, it's so easy to reach out to what we know will make us feel better. I did it every single time. I always went back to heroin.. I knew that would make it all go away and sub never did that for me.. in the beginning anyway. I had to get on methadone first. That was the only thing that took away my w/ds from dope and actually stopped me from being sick. I wouldn't wish methadone on anyone and am not suggesting it, just sharing my story. It wasn't until I had some time on methadone and got away from heroin, that I was able to stop reaching out for heroin as a fix. Eventually I had to get away from methadone too and that desire is what allowed me to stick out a final suboxone induction. I went the really long route (as have others here) and don't suggest it. I'm just trying to say that it is normal to reject the induction because, for a lot of us, suboxone does not feel like like our drug of choice. For some it feels great.. for others.. it's not even close. There is no right or wrong, just how it is.

Sweet, you seem so smart and I can tell you have a lot going for you. Cut it out and make a commitment already. You most likely need a longer maintenance plan. A few days of detox isn't going to do much as long as you still have access to dealers.. friends that use.. and/or the lifestyle in general. You need real distance from your old toxic habits.. only rehab or a real maintenance is going to give you that.

Let me repeat.. you are negotiating with chaos for a sense of (false) satisfaction. Stop.

HUGS.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:07 am 
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Sweet, you got on Suboxone before, cleaned up and stabilized your life, you can do it again!!!

I understand that you're sad, mad and hurting right now.....hell, I would be too.....wait a minute, I was!! I was right where you are. I was scared shitless of going on Suboxone. I wanted so bad to stop fucking up my life and eventually the desire to stop fucking up outweighed the desire to fuck up and I got on Suboxone. I sincerely hope that you do get back on Suboxone. Once you're stabilized on it, then you can decide what to do from there.

Take care of yourself, you are so worth it!!!!

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 2:19 pm 
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Morning ya all. Thank you for support.
Tiny~ I can not tell you what it means to read that you thought about me when you were suppose to be enjoying dinner w/ your family/friends. Thank you so much for sharing your experience of trying to induce. I NEEDED to read this. I do not feel so isolated and like I'm the only one that has ever experienced this. I feel like I CAN DO THIS. I understand you tried a few times and you DID it finally.... I definately know Methadone is not the route I am gonna take. I did Subox before. Got clean and tapered over a 6 month period. Clean barely 3 weeks & I relapsed. That will NOT haooen again. I AM gonna get it together and induce properly. I finally confessed to my ex husband and I think he will support me ONE TIME. I sort of told my BFF in a round about way and she lives next door. SHe WILL be a support for me. Now I have lined up a small support group so I will not be totally alone. I am going to seek professional help maybe even in-patient detox.Thing is, I have a raging gram to a half gram a day habit and I think it is not shitty cut street dope. I get what is likely some of the purest dope one can get here in San Diego. (right next to the mexican border) I am lucky that I do not have ANY friends or aquaintances that use. NOBODY and I mean NOT a SOUL knows or would even believe I am strung out. I am (seem) healthy, happy, I have a great job, I have never begged, borrowed, stealed or been "down and out". This is a blessing and possibly a problem. I have not experienced any negative reprecussions due to my use. Other than I cant get off w/o being in a WORLD OF HURT. I am definately not your typical junky. Not at all bragging here just wanting to give a glimpse into my world and show that I am really very blessed and cursed at the same time. I have a long road ahead. It is the perfect time of year I guess. I will be walking to the beach daily, meditating, praying to the universe. I will be a sub patient again. Something I NEVER thought I would say. DAM THIS! DAMN ME! But ok I MUST get myself off heroin. I am better than this. I am a good woman with a lot going for me. I can do this but, boy.... its not gonna be easy. I used to feel so strong. SO together. SO kick ass... Oh god Sub makes me feel so depressed, un motivated, friggen hate that crap I really do. I have got to do something though so I will.......Thank you Tiny...

Rome, Thanks man. I know you are right. WHat , why did I let this happen? I wanted to forget that guy and so I self medicated. I wanted to get over a haunting relationship. I wanted to NOT FEEL. Ohhhhh, It worked. Now I must pay the piper. I'm scared Rome. I AM getting back on track. I will seek professional help. I will get on a maintance program. Im DONE with this shit once and for all. Now I know, I finally know how serious this is.
I wonder if I should talk to my physician? Or seek an addiction specialist? Would they give me comfort meds. to detox? I have insurance. Do I dare get them involved? I've got some things to figure out.
Thanks guys for the help. I sincerely appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 3:56 pm 
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I know exactly what you mean about not having any negative repercussions. I was there for a while too. The entire time I was smoking heroin, I was a live in nanny for a city councilman and his family. This family was smart and alert, I closely interacted with them all day, almost every day. They had absolutely no idea that I was strung out while taking care of their kids. Nobody did. It wasn't until I started IVing that everything fell apart and quickly. QUICKLY. It's easy to say that you'd never do that, I said that too, but it's natural progression. I hope you can turn this ship around before you actually hit bottom, that would be ideal. I'm sorry this induction didn't work out and I'm sorry you're scared.

If I were you I would look into an addiction specialist. I had better luck with one than my regular GP. He was just more in tune with the whole process and I felt more comfortable. Either way, seeing a doctor and getting on maintenance would be beneficial. I know you know that.

As for insurance, it's up to you. Do you think you'll be switching providers any time soon? If not, then it could be helpful to use your insurance for this.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:14 pm 
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Hi my dear,

Boy, you have some great people here giving you hopeful insight and support. We're rooting for you Hun!!

I'm so so saddened by your words "I'm scared Romeo". *sigh*.... I am hopeful this time around with subs can make a difference. Perhaps this time you can stablized on subs, then seek counseling, get those ducks in a row etc and mentally prepare yourself with the help of a counselor. you're holding this inside all bottled up. You don't want to explode! I completely understand.... Shits real.

I too held back all my demons and struggles with my addiction. I was a full blown functioning addict. I can relate to it being your speed, as I was super woman when I was doped up. Nobody knew, I was ashamed of it and probably in denial. I was a ticking time bomb. I also then relapsed hardcore for a long time before saying "FUCK THIS!" And getting back on subs. Longest I went clean in all those years was 8 days. Couldn't do it by myself.

This time, My skeletons came out swinging. My parents, brother and old man finally knew. Sad part, is i dont know if i ever would of told my old man. Then infound out i was preggo and I had to tell him. I always pictured it being like this,.. The love of my life leaves me, my parents hate me, I'm all alone. Boy, was I wrong. They took me and embraced it and have been by my side for 32 days now. Scary thought, if I hadn't told him, he'd find out in time. Then, I'd def be alone.

STAY strong.... Life is handing you some pretty shitty rotten lemons and its hard to not chuck them at people. Try to tell yourself that its only going to get better. And, embrace those kitty's :D mine are my other 2 children :D crazy cat ladies unite! Lol!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 16, 2013 9:37 pm 
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Did someone say crazy cat lady?


I have two kitties. They snuggled me throughout my whole detox. They like to lay on me at the same time and they are big girls.. It's like having kids.

Speaking of cats, have you guys seen this video? It kills me every time.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIePsbJSS04[/youtube]


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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