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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:04 pm 
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Thanks Reprieve, There's gonna have to be a lot of repairs to my brain, it's been damaged a long time. lol

I will definitly try that. Anything that could help or can't hurt. I'm game.

Yea, I could be up anywhere from now till ...............?

If your up and I see you I will PM you,

Thanks, Gary


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:39 am 
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day 2......slept till 2am. Got up, totally dilutionall. Took a Clonidine and a Clonazepan before bed last night too help me sleep. Didn't work. Woke up at 2am totaly out of it. Didn't know where I was. Got out of bed, fell into the wooden shutters in our bed room, destroyed the bottom half. Couldn't get my bearings, feel totally out of it. Got some good cuts and scrapes on my body.

I went to bed at 1am hoping for a few hours of sleep with those sedatives, Last time i try that. From here on in it's cold turkey, No more Clonazepan, really screwed me up. At one time that would have been ok but I'm done with that shit, It was prescribed to take if needed for sleep, It's needed but not if I am going to wander my house in the middle of the night and not even be sure what I am doing. Not sure why I reacted that way.
I have a pretty good tolerance for most drugs. Strange. Not even sure why I woke up, it took me 15 minutes to figure out where i was.


Gary


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:58 pm 
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What's up brother.
Hang in there man. Things will get better with time. Klonopin is some crazy shit haha. I'm not sure I would ever take that again. I never asked if you have chronic pain, but if you can do some superman's or front/side planks. It helped me get the little sleep I could manage the first week. More than anything it helps mentally. Anything to get your muscles working. Glad to see your going for it

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:03 pm 
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Yea, I have lots of chronic pain. Had to pretty bad accidents on my bike in 05 and 08.

This along with the ones I had a a youger age riding motocross. Played AAA hockey also which added a few injuries.

3 knee surgery's, Commpression fracture to the T-6, broke many bones in many places. Arthritis in the shoulder, back, knees. This to name a few.

I have been dealing with pain most of my life. It's never realy stopped me from doing things I love. Still ride my bike. Been all over North America.

Planning a big trip this year now that I'm retired.

Still feeling the effects from last night. So strange. I feel like I drank 40oz bottle of Jack and a case of beer. I have a hard time it was the Klonopin that did that. I use to eat stuff like that like candy.


You take care and keep that positive out look going.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Sending support from down south where milk does not come in bags!!! Stay strong!!! :)


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:30 am 
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Just reading this thread. Milk in bags? Explain. Is it powder that u mix or what? Lol. Never heard of it!

Anyway, awesome job on ur jump. My question to you: when I jump should I leave out the clonodine and sleeping meds? If it doesn't help then I'm Not going to even fill the script...

When w/d from opiates I get restless legs of the while body! It's awful. I watch the clock cause I'm so tired & want to sleep. But as soon as I lay down my whole body is crawling. So I know it will be my biggest issue. Has anyone had any luck with Neurontin/Gabapentin?? Is it worth asking for? I think it has abuse potential as well but if its just used for about a week would that be an issue???

Thanks, Jen


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:34 am 
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Hey Jen, You guys and your bag milk, MILK can come in a bag in stead of a CARTON, Never been to Canada, eh, lol

For me the Clonodine works the best. It takes the edge off th WD and for me even RLS. I t has helped me get to sleep but it hasn't given me a long sleep. You may get dry mouth taking it to but I recommend it. As for sleeping pills. Hey if your doc will give you a script, and you need some help, it won't hurt to try it. Just be careful you don't want to get dependant on those. If you use sleeping pills, don't stay on them too long.

Rest Leg Syndrome -the most common pain in the ass most if not all of us get. There is no cure but there are different remedies to try. Look them up, there are numerous out there. I haven't bothered, I find the clonodine has helped me with that and WD. I wont get rid of everything it just makes it a little more relaxing.
Going for a walk can help. Stretching your calfs, hamstrings can also help RLS.

Others may not agree with me, it's just my opinion.

@ thisagain,
thanks for support down south, we can get chocolate milk in bags too.
Gary


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:24 am 
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Day 3 = yesterday went by prett good. biggest problem is getting to sleep. it's 5am and there's no way my body and brain are going to let me sleep. Other than that, life is great. I know it's only day 3 but I've had worse hang overs than this. That should spur it's ugly head. Come on hurry up show me what you got. Get on with it or f.o. and leave me alone. :?

Geez I'm tired.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:44 am 
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That's right brother. I knew it wasn't just me. It's nothing bro, Just Mental. Keep your head up and keep an eye out for those wooden shutters :wink:

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 5:37 am 
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Day 4 or 5, yesterday was awake for 35hrs. Very frustrating. It's not that you aren't tired or exhausted, your body just won't relax. Mentaly exhausted. I have to agree being alome most of the time makes it even more difficult. It's nice to interface with someone, especially someone who has an idea of what you are experiencing.

I tried a epsom salt bath, felt relaxing while I was in it. Paced a lot, got mad a lot. Put the head phones on and cranked up the volume.

After a while I couldn't sit still. We have a tread mill in the basement. I really had no energy to go on it but I forced myself and did 60 minutes at a fast walking pace. Was ready to quit after 15 minutes, 30 minutes but pushed through for an hour. I must say my body did relax. I laid down with the headphones on again and 20 minutes later went to bed and slept 4 hours.

Thought I had died and gone to heaven. It's early now (4:15am) but I feel pretty refreshed. No jitters yet. No stress, feels good, I know I'm just in a small window of time but I'm feeling good. I know the WD will force it's ugly head again but I will take this small opportunity of feeling good to remind myself what it will be like in the near future.

Going into my old work today for a couple of hours. Start of a Consulting Job. Not the best timing for me to be doing this but as usual, when it rains it pours. I got the call for this the day before I jumped.

Gary


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:51 am 
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IWDT,

Hey! I was reading your posts & thought I'd get involved. I have been going through different blogs for a few days now, trying to get the strength up to just jump from 0.5mg/1mg a day. I'm absolutely terrified. I've never tried to go cold turkey before, & just recently I've been looking into the weaning off idea. The only issue with that is, I'm not prescribed subs. I get them from a friend :? So, it scares me because I may not be able to get them one day. Then again, maybe that's a good thing?

Another issue I'm having with the whole cold turkey thing is my anxiety. This morning I woke up with a 1/4 sub left & immediately started panicking & crying. I need to go to my family doctor & see if he will prescribe me something that will help. Do you guys know of anything that will?

Also IWDT, what are your simptoms from not taking the subs anymore? How bad is it? & what meds are you taking to help it, if any? Sorry for all the questions, I just saw you were basically doing the same thing I want to do, so I figured I'd take advantage of it! :roll:

I know I just wrote a book, but the thought of the pain I'm about to go through terrifies me... I need someone to go through this with me, & I really don't have anyone for that. I plan to start this hellacious battle very very soon...

-KDS


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:07 am 
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hi kds_xox,
If I can help you I try my best. What were you doing before the need of Subs. Were you on Subs for a long time. What was your max dose. I see you are .5mg, are you experiencing any withdrawal at that dose.

If you want PM me. I kind of need a little more info on your history. Or you can reply to this post. Whatever makes you feel comfortable.

For me so far the worst part is sleep. Along with a little RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). But the RLS comes and goes. It's slowly easing up. Just feeling a bit restless.

Honestly, I am surprised I'm not worse. Saying that I'm only at day 4 or 5 (I'm confused which day I stopped) lol. I understand your fear. But believe me, it will be worth it. You have probably read a lot of horror stories on other forums, this site is the most positive one I've seen, lots of help from people who really care about you and know what you are going through.

For me so far it has not been bad. Still a long road ahead of me though.

I would gladly help you if i can. You will find many friends here will be there for you.

Gary


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:48 am 
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Gary,

I'm not sure I know how to send a PM. lol I tried, but not sure if I did it right. So, in case it didn't I'll post on here.

But here's my background. I'm 21 years old, got hooked on perc 30's when I was about 17, & stayed on them till recently. I've been taking subs for about 3 years (on & off). I used to take a little piece of sub before work, then do a p30 after work. It was a terrible habit, & I'm so glad I've gotten this far! I loved those damn pills... why?! :evil: They're devil pills!

Anyway, I have been taking subs religiously for about a year & a half now. Religiously, as in every single day. Here recently though, I've realized I needed to take the sub on a schedule if I really wanted to quit. So I've been taking an 1/8 of a sub when I wake up, & 98% of the time an 1/8 before I fall asleep. Usually I will start getting those TERRIBLE damn hot flashes/cold chills & realize I need to take it. So I usually take about 1mg a day total. What were your withdraws like? The worst part for me is the hot flashes/cold chills & being weak.

I haven't really taken more than a half of a sub at a time... I'm hoping & praying that will make it a bit easier for me. I experience withdraws everyday (but not all day, only randomly, then that cues me to take my sub), it's like my body knows when I need to take it... i plan to get some sleeping meds to help me through the withdraws once I jump. I was thinking about weaning off, but if you're saying you still have withdraws, what's the point? :?

Thanks so much for your support! I've found this blog super helpful, yet super scary... Hope that fills you in more! :)

Kansas


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:22 am 
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hi Kansas,

I am not totally familiar with the strips , we don't get them here. Just the pill in 8mg or 2mg. I take it 1/8 is 1mg. If this is right you are at a fairly low dose.

Remember this is only my opinion and others may agree or disagree and that's ok.

From where you are at now you (in my opinion) need to try and take it once a day. Maybe start at combining your dose once a day. I don't think you will notice a huge difference other than you may not experience those random WD's during the day.

From there taper down slowly till you get to .1mg. There are awsome forums here that can help you with the taper.

My experience from tapering ( I did it very quickly and don't recommend it) was once I got down from 2 - 1mg I started getting WD symptoms. I thought they would subside over a week or so but continued till the day I jumped.

Now that was a 50% taper. Way to much for that low a dose. If you can reduce 10 - 25% every week or 2 it would be easier. Most people talk about getting down to .250mg then jump. That was impossible for me so I just jumped at 1mg. I figured I feel crappy now and went for it. I was also on a strict time frame when I had to jump.

When I jumped my doc gave me a script for Clonidine..2mg. It helps with some of the WD symptoms. Can make you drowsy but it does help.

I hope this helps you a bit and I'm sure many friends on here can give you there opinion.

I haven't always made the decisions but for me this is working.

Stay in touch, Gary oh ya, I got your PM, lol :)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:11 am 
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Hi Kansas,

Welcome to our forum!

I'm so glad that you found us, and I really hope that you are able to find some comfort in talking with other addicts who understand your fears.

Here is what I think. Based on what you described I'm not sure if you are ready to jump off the subs yet. Of course, I may be wrong, but let me explain why I say this.
It sounds like you have not been able to lay down any real foundations of recovery yet. You were using the subs during your active addiction, and when you quit the pills you went straight over to the subs. But, you aren't really using them in the way that they are intended. Taking a very small dose, multiple times a day is not really beneficial for you. You have already said that you are experiencing WD symptoms throughout the day and this is your cue to dose. Suboxone is intended to be taken in a high enough dose to keep you at a consistent level of saturation throughout the day to eliminate this issue. I know that doesn't really sound like a big deal, but it is. See, it's not just about keeping you feeling well all day, it's about breaking the cycle of taking something every time you feel bad.

Another issue with this way of taking the subs is that you are actually allowing your brain to still receive the gratification of feeling the effects of the opiate when you take your dose. Believe it or not, if you had been taking enough to saturate your receptors as intended, you would not be feeling ANYTHING when you dose every day.

Now, when I said I don't think you are ready to stop I didn't mean that you couldn't do it physically. Your WD's probably wouldn't be that bad coming from what you have been taking. But, what are you going to do when you get passed that WD stage and have to live every day for the rest of your life with nothing? Have you done any work on laying a foundation of things to help you through that? The real work starts AFTER you quit the subs.

IMO, you should try to get in with a suboxone doctor and complete a real program. Get some real recovery tools in your toolbox, and make sure that when you do this, you do it right the first time. If you don't, I'm afraid you will wind up right back where you started....or maybe even worse.

Please give all of this some thought OK? Let us know how you are feeling and we will try to do whatever you need to support you in your decision...whatever that is.

Also, it would really be a good idea to start your own thread. You will get alot more responses, and it will be helpful for you to keep up with a conversation directed only to you. :D

Let us know if you need help figuring that out.

Q

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:41 am 
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Q,

Thanks for your helpful info... I agree with you on what you've said. The only thing I would like to add, is that I'm ready (at least I think I am). The reason I haven't went to a doctor is because of the money aspect of things. I would love to, & I've done my research, but I have no way of paying for it each month... at least for now.

Also, I'm mentally aware that I take the sub when I need it. I know that's an addicts habit, but I really don't want to take more than I need to. I've always been that way, since I got off the pills at least. I've came a very long way from where I used to be. & honestly, I'm not all the way there. So maybe I should just continue to move forward.

See, my dad is the only one I have to talk to about this type of stuff... & he keeps pushing me to get off the subs. He doesn't understand the addiction like we do. :? I REALLY wanna get off the subs, so I can live a normal & drug free life! I feel like I'm ready for it... but what you've said kind of makes me second guess myself. I guess we'll see?

I'm just sick of depending on a drug. I hate it more than anything.

Thank you for welcoming me & I will start my own page... if I can figure out how. lol :)

Kansas


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 7:52 am 
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Day 6 - finally had a decent sleep, 6 hours. Feeling decent. I find early evening and into the night I'm at my worst.
Went to work yesterday to see what they needed me for. Spent 4 hours going over things. Felt normal, like I could do this. Going back in Friday for 8 hours. That will be a good test.

I'm not sure when I should stop using the Clonidine, I only take 1 before going to bed. It helps relax my body and brain. There had been the odd night when I tried nothing but never really got any sleep.

I am really surprised how minimal the WD's have been. Don't get me wrong, had some rough nights with no sleep and some terrible RLS, but many moments of feeling ok. Evenings are worst but if I get on the treadmill for an hour and then listen to music in the dark, I'm good.

So far during the day I have energy but it does diminish later in the day. Have to force myself to keep motivated. It does help keeping busy.

I know I still have a long way to go and a longer fight after getting through this initial stage. A strong mind and a strong body is our best chance.

I hate failing, I did enough of that when I was at school, lol, this is one thing I will succeed at.

Thanks everyone for your support.

Gary


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 3:53 am 
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Day 7 - 2 hours sleep last night. Going in to help out at my old job. It's just after 2am, I think it's going to be hard for me to be late. lol. Need to be there for 6am.

I thought they would have left me Retired a little longer than 1 1/2 months before asking for help. Going to have to make the best of it. It's going to be an 8 hour day. This will stretch my ability to function in that kind of environment for that long.

This whole jump date I had set up was crumbling around me to a point where I almost couldn't go ahead with it. Quite a few things happened leading up to "the day".

But here I am at day 7 not sure if I can be myself for 8 hours working with upper and lower management at the Steel Plant I retired from.

The surprising thing for me is even with a couple hours sleep here and there I actualy feel good in the morning. It's usually late afternoon and throughout the night the WD get more serious. Not enough to make me go crazy but enough to really piss me off.

I know it would be easy for all this to go away but like I told my WD last night, go f yourself. It's kind of funny, it made me feel a little better after that.

I'M IN THIS FOR THE LONG HAUL.

Gary


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 10:52 am 
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Ah, a fellow Canadian, eh? :)

Milk in bags was the norm for me until I moved to the States. I thought everyone got their milk in bags? I miss my Oh Henry bars, too. No Oh Henry bars here. How do these Americans live without Oh Henry bars? HOW??

I noticed in your earlier posts you've had lots of injuries. Years back I had some serious injuries and one of my main worries in getting off Suboxone was how I was going to treat the pain. Interestingly enough, once my body got used to being without opiates, the pain pretty much all went away. If I do have pain, a couple of Advil knock the hell out of it. Amazing how strong Advil is once you don't have opiates in you.

I see you're suffering from lack of sleep. My heart goes out to you. I know how brutal that can be, but I also know how we can perform at very high levels on crap sleep. I did it for a good while and I'm sure you'll push through too.

Keep hanging in there, eh!!

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 14, 2014 6:44 pm 
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Gary; What's up brother---->
Its always encouraging to see your positive outlook man. BTW the fact that your working 8 hour days after dropping from 1mg is pretty crazy to read. My first seven days, I had a hard time walking outside because the cold would almost shock my system. I did manage to be somewhat productive but damn, that's cool to see. Especially knowing how many injuries you have. Your doing good man, keep it up!

James

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