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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 5:43 am 
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Hey there iwill-

Just my two-cents, I am now on my second run of suboxone but prior to this I was able to taper from 16mg/ day to .5 in about 175 days. You are absolutely correct about the post 2mg taper process, it does seem to be the point at which the discomfort initiates. That being said, you can most definitely do this. You sound determined and driven, and in all honesty thats all you need! im positive it wont be a walk in the park, but I know if it were myself in your position id take that jump from 1mg as well. It really comes down to whether youd rather go through a few months of mild w/d or 5 - 10 days of moderate. Im 100% behind you my friend, you CAN do this and im sure I speak for everyone when I say we are here for you and wish you all the luck in the world.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 6:14 am 
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Thanks Mickey

Thanks for your support. I can't see doing this taper at the rate I have been (time restricted) with the sleepless nights I'm getting. Honestly the last 3 nights I think I've slept a total of 7 hours, maybe. Never a constant either night.

Even if I had time to take it slower I'm not sure this would work for me. The slow torture has never been one of my strong suits. I know 1mg is a little high according to people who know a lot more than me about Sub tapering.

If I hadn't found this site I probably would have jumped a long time ago. For that I'm glad I at least got down to 1mg. 6 months ago I was at 24mg.

In the past I have gone cold turkey on different drugs. Yeah it hurts real bad but at least I know there will be an end. Right now I'm doing the taper with some WD to get ready for the jump day that is just around the corner. By the time I get there I will already be mentally and physically exhausted.

I feel like I'm teasing myself.

Quite a few years ago I jumped off 200mg of methadone for 5 days in order to start Suboxone. I had tried to taper but that was impossible for me. When I started the Subs I here it blocks the methadone and that was
hell for a couple of weeks but made it through.

Now it's time to get off this. I know it won't be easy and there is a long recovery period. I'm prepared but can't keep going on this slow WD process.

Thanks again for your support


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:32 am 
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Hey Gary,

Keep your head up dude, I know it's tough, but you are going to make it!

I can really sympathize with how you are feeling. Try to keep in mind how far you have come. Like you said, you WERE at 24mg not long ago. You have put in some serious work to get yourself to where you are, and it will pay off for you in the long run.

Stay strong, and do your best to rest your body before the jump day.

I'm praying for you and the others here who are going through the same thing.

Q

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 02, 2014 3:40 pm 
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Thank you for your kind words Q,
I was out shovelling snow at 2am this morning. lol

Well it wasn't really funny but I couldn't sit , stand or watch TV. Finally by morning (8am) I took my 1mg of Sub and within an hour I could relax again.

Had a nap and got caught up on some sleep. Seems like for now this will be the way I get rest. I'm good with that for now. Even when I take a Clonidine before hitting the sack I only sleep for about an hour. So I'm going to stop that to until I jump for good. Also going to stop fighting sleeping at night. If I fall asleep, good, even if for 1/2 hour, which has happened. Then I would lay there and toss and turn and get pissed off which makes it worse. Now I am just going to get up before the anger sets in.

It's really strange. At night I feel ok and think I can get some sleep but the moment I lay down my body, legs refuse to let me. It could be brought on by myself (thinking it will happen) but I can't control my brain's thoughts. Too many memories from the past WD's.

Anyway I'm still on course for my jump day, either Friday or Saturday, I have to make sure I can drive the wife and grandson to the airport Sunday night which is an hour each way.

Gary


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:42 am 
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Not a good day yesterday. Didn't take anything to help me sleep and still managed to sleep till 3:45am.I did what some of you said and put on the head phones and cranked up the music, haven't done that in a decade or so. I use to do that all the time. It was relaxing and let my mind think of something other than my life. That gave me 2 1/2 hours. One hour better than yesterday. If you have time to taper don't do what I am doing.
Way too much stress right now that is making this very hard. Not going to get into the added stress but it couldn't have come at a worse time. If I could I would jump right now. The only thing stopping me is I have to drive some family members to the airport Sunday night. Too long of a drive to be fully in the WD stage.

I will be jumping with 14 - 2mg pills left. I know they should not be in the house but not many people know of what I have been doing the last half of my life. I could probably call my youngest daughter (28 yrs) and have her take them and hang on to them just in case I .........................can't do that, she just got married and is 5 months pregnant. I wouldn't want to put that on her shoulders. None of my kids know I'm trying to get "clean of drugs".

Not sure if I should throw them in the garbage or not. Along with me picking this date to jump, my Sub doc just retired also. I have been with him from the begining (a guess) 15 - 20 years.

He has all the faith in me but I'm scared to get rid of them right away. There are othe Sub docs in the area but I'm not sure how long it would take me to get one in a pinch.

I know this sounds like I'm not ready but I have been for a long time. Just some added stress last night that has my head spinning and emotions are low.

I think I'm on the wrong part of this forum (Introductions) to carry on with my posts.

Should I start a new one under "Getting off Subs".

Sorry just rambling, no one to talk to here at home.

Thank you my new cyber friends, without you I would be a lost soul right now.

Not to good of an editor, hope my spelling and words are ok, my thought pattern is all over the place.

Gary


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 1:37 pm 
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Hey Gary,

Really quickly, I just wanted to address your concern about the extra subs you have.

MY OPINION, would be to hold on to them. If you believe that this added stress you referred to will in any way make this jump harder then it's better to be safe than sorry. Life changing events are renowned to cause addicts to relapse. Especially those who are early in recovery. My biggest fear would be that you may get rid of them and have no way of getting more. If you get to the point that you are in immediate danger of relapse it would be sooo much better to have those subs on hand than to have none and go back to your DOC.

I am in no way trying to make you doubt that it is possible for you to jump and never go back to anything, I just think we need to be realistic, and do a little bit of harm reduction planning. Does that make sense?

I hope this isn't discouraging for you, because that is NOT my intent. I'm just concerned.

I am positive that not everyone here will agree with me, and that is ok. I just wanted to put my opinion out there.

Be well,

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 5:32 pm 
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Hi qhorsegal2,

I think that's probably the best way to go. I have to agree. Life can throw a lot of curves at you when you least expect it.

In no way is anything you said discouraging. It's only helpful. Still on target. I still can't believe I feel crappy dropping that 1mg a week ago. Nothing serious, more to do with sleeping. But I know the fight begins Saturday.

When I jump, should I move to a different forum or should I just do it now. I think I'm probably in the wrong area (Introduction) for this or does it really matter. :?:

Thank you as always


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:10 pm 
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Whatever you would like to do is fine.

If you want to start a new thread, you certainly can. Or, if you want to keep it all together I would be happy to move this one over there for you and you can just continue it here. Your choice.

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:18 pm 
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@IWill

What's up Gary. I feel like me and you are kind of similar in that we both jumped because of pending stressors. I felt like I wasn't living on Suboxone. I understand it isn't ethical or comfortable to jump from 1mg but listen, I spent the month leading up to me jumping at 2mg worrying and finding every website to back up my apparent irrational fear of jumping. I'm on day 10 and I feel good man. I don't see why you wouldn't have a different experience. Your in it bro. Accept it and do it. My biggest problem was my knees hurt when I would go running and try to sleep with the occasional Chills and cold sweats. Your building this up to be a nightmare. Don't let yourself work this up to be something its not. I did it and wasted the month prior worrying. Good luck brother! 8)

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Fear is Temporary, Regret is Forever

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Thanks for that hOpe. You are right. I'm letting it get to me. I need to just get to my jump date. Believe me, I had multiple experiences with WD. I really think this time I'm at a dose that it shouldn't be too bad. I've gone through hell more than once. But during those times it wasn't that I was trying to detox, just waiting for my next fix. Well before I started Subs to try and get my life back.

10 days and feeling good. That's great. It's hearing from friends like you that gives me a bit of calmness to my sanity. (did that make sense).

Please keep in touch. Positive experiences are very refreshing. I wish I could jump today but family is depending on me this weekend.

Gary


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2014 5:56 pm 
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Thanks qhorsegal2,

if you could move it over to there , I would appreciate it. I kinda think I'm in the wrong area. Thanks for the help, again.

Gary


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:39 am 
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It sure felt good to finally get some sleep last night. Can't believe I slept till 6:30am. I needed that leading up to my jump day which is coming up Saturday.

Not too sure if I am getting use to 1mg or my brain just gave me a night off. It's been a long haul tapering down to 1mg. I realize I did a fast taper from 24mg (approx 4 months, I think) and probably wouldn't recommend it. Wish I got to this forum earlier. Lots of great people with great advice.

I'm sure I am repeating myself over and over but I'm trying to stay focused on my jump. Hope everyone is staying strong and will stay in touch.

It's snowing like crazy out here. I hate winter. Would love to get out on my bike, it's probably the one thing that makes me feel free.

Gary


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Ok Gary,

I got you all set. You are now officially in the Stopping Suboxone section.

Hope you are having a good day today!

Q

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 05, 2014 9:50 pm 
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Thank you qhorsegal2, again.

Had a pretty good day. Stayed busy shovelling snow. :)

I think I finally may be getting use to 1mg. Better late than never. A couple more days and I'm ready to give this my all. It's been a long time coming.

I can't say I'm looking forward to it but I am ready.

Gary


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:26 am 
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Spoke to soon. I think the 1mg is just teasing me. Lots going on right now though. still planning on jumping Sunday, had to move it ahead a day. Really long story.

Complicated week.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:08 am 
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@iwilldothis.... I had a tough time finding you, the thread moved :) Sorry I haven't checked in in awhile, but the kids and I have been battling a stomach bug. I have been reading up, and I just want to say: You are doing great! I know that it's been tough, but at least your staying strong. I think that the 1MG per day is just stringing you along. In my past experience, and as another poster has mentioned, that once you finally jump you should start you feel better in a few days. You will have a night or two of no sleep and then a week or so of little sleep (you're already there ;( ) but because you will no longer be dosing, you brain will start re-creating the needed neuron connections it needs to "get back to normal" (This was discussed by Dr. Junig's on last weekends video).

From what I have read, you are doing everything right. Just keep on keeping on and just keep in the back of your mind that you are almost out of this tunnel.

As for keeping the Subox around, I agree that you should probably hold on to them. You sound strong enough to NOT take them for any old reason, but in the event that you feel you can't take it anymore, at least you have them to fall back on instead of trying to go out and find something that will send you all the back to square one.

How has Thomas' Recipe been working for you?

Another suggestion to help, and this is going to get a bit personal, but one way to help release endorphins is to masturbate. I know one problem when stopping opiates is there is no more stamina and climax comes really fast. Masturbating will release many beneficial brain chemicals that will give, if only short lived, a little relief by naturally releasing endorphins. Dr. Junig did mention that after long term opiate use, that natural endorphins are not strong enough to bind to the old receptors, but as you go through withdrawls and your brain starts to re-create those neural pathways, it should provide begin to some relief. It will also take your mind off of other things, again if only for a bit.

Getting up at night instead of tossing and turning is the way to go. I found I kept a more positive attitude if I just accepted what my body was doing and worked with it instead of fighting it just because social norms said I should be asleep. I know this is different when you have a house full of family and your trying to keep your struggles private, but while you have the time, just go with the flow.

You're almost there and I believe you can do it! You are doing great and keeping a positive attitude. Just keep it up!

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:30 am 
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Thanks for that Reprieve,

I agree with you this 1mg dose is just teasing my brain. It's like buying a hamburg and only getting the bun.

Today is actually my 1st day off it. I've felt like shit since I went to 1mg. That was a little over 2 weeks ago. It gives me about 2 hours of relief and then back to a non severe WD other than I can't sleep more than 1 - 3 hours if I'm lucky.

I appreciate you putting everything out there to help me. At this point I don't think anything could embarrass me, not that anything you said should.

And yes I have been taking the Thomas' recipe for about a week now. I don't know if it is helping but I do no it is not hurting me. Time will tell now that I stopped using.

Thanks again for the info and your positive attitude.

Gary


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 12:01 pm 
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Well, with the long half life of Subs, I think tonight and tomorrow will be the worst of the WDs, but on the bright side, after that you should start to be on the downhill slide, at least from my past experiences. Your brain will start to seek homeostasis and start rebuilding and repairing some of your neural pathways.

Now that you're not taking Subs, you may want to consider St. John's Wort, Ginko Biloba, and Omega-3s. St. John's Wort is a homeopathic herb that helps with "positive attitude", but people that are taking Suboxone should be aware that taking St. John's Wort could make the subs less effective (not sure of the process why, just that it can). The Ginko Biloba will help stimulate blood flow to the brain and the omega-3 are just good for your brain. Anything that will help your brain repair itself faster.

In my case, taking St. John's Wort help me tremendously dealing with stress. It wasn't something I could feel after taking, and it usually took a few days of taking, but I would just feel less stressed during situations that normally would have had me very anxious. Again, it wasn't anything I could feel while I was taking it, but after stopping taking it, I could tell that it had been working... if that makes any sense. I personally was taking it while taking suboxone, but could tell that I needed a higher dose of Subs while taking it, so for the most part I don't share that info.

Again, these are just some suggestions for things that could help. I am not a doctor, just have been dealing with my issues for a long time and found that when I did want to be better, these things would help if only as a placebo but if some of this is in our minds anyway, then a placebo can be just as helpful.

Ok, I am rambling. I am here if you need to talk, and If im up late at night I'll come check in on you so if you see me on late at night, just PM me and we can talk... about anything... life in general... Just to take your mind off of the sleeplessness.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 1:31 pm 
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You made the right decision .

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2014 8:43 pm 
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Thanks my friend, I suffered too much to get here to delay any longer. All alone and totally committed.


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