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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:10 pm 
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@Qhorsegal2,
I'm dealing with few thing, RLS and a brain that won't relax. I will get through this but it is wearing on me.I took another sleeping pill last night after tossing and turning for hours. The problem is I wake up feeling like crap. So today I went back to the gym........well dragged my lazy ass there. Sure didn't feel like it but I pushed myself out the door. Had a smoke on the way and on the way back. Smoking, that will be my next one to quit.
Thanks for the heads up on the Benadryl. What works for some may not work for others. I always seem to fall towards the other. :) I will look deeper into the ingredients in other brands comparible to Unisom.

Sorry Jen i'm with Romeo on this one hockey is the greatest sport on the planet. :)
You should watch a game, you never know, you might like it. Don't get me wrong, I like baseball, football and the UFC.

I can understand how a lot of Americans can't get into hockey cause it's Canadas game. :wink:

Thanks again Q


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 3:16 pm 
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Jimmy who............just kidding, I think that may work, I'll have to try that out tonight :)

I've tried everything else.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:26 pm 
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Fuck yeah Gary. Keep being positive. BTW I understand how hard it is a 'few weeks in' to go to the gym. In my mind, I felt like everyone was watching me. I felt paranoid for some reason, and self conscious? ? Maybe you can relate. Keep pushing yourself bro. I just weighed myself, and I gained ten pounds since I loss the Twenty. If I wasn't working out, I would for sure still be depressed. Working out breaks down your muscles, and pushes those toxins out. When your on the Bike or treadmill, keep your heart rate around 160 and push yourself for at-least 30 mins. You'll feel unbelievable. Keep it up bro, I'm proud of you. I hope Todd is cool. Peace

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:56 pm 
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@hOpe

I'm doing great. The only piss off is getting sleep. I went back to the gym today and plan on being a regular again. I know what I need but it's to fucken cold. I need to get away, take a long bike ride with no destination. Fing a road that leads to warmer weather and keep going. This winter is the shits. Hate the cold, I'm freezing all day. Escpecially my feet.

This sleep shit has got to stop. I would be happy just falling asleep. 2 hours would be great. I'm not asking for much. Not sure what changed but i haven't been able to fall asleep without pills for 3-4 days now. It aint from lack of trying, I stayed up over 40 hours the other day. Swore I wouldn't take a pill to fall asleep. Going to give that another go. A lot of it is probably in my head but trying to get it out of your head aint easy.

If it wasn't for that I'm doing great. I have some energy back, still need to push myself to get going but I feel pretty good.
I'll just keep plugging away, late, latenight TV sucks. :)

Glad to hear your doing great, keep it up my friend


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:33 pm 
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I started getting sleep again a few weeks In. I know how sleep deprivation fucked with me and I know I was close to giving in. Its not easy to stay positive when your brain is Racing every time you lay down. I remember around day 20 or something , I started getting that warm endorphin feeling, then I started sleeping. BTW this cold is fkn Annoying, like you said. It makes it more difficult, but look at the summer your going to have. You wont waste it. Put some head phones on, listen to some led Zeppelin, or whatever your into and focus on the finish line bro

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:00 am 
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@hope,
yea sleep deprivation can make you go crazy. Actually changed up my routine a little last night. Stayed up a little later. Took the headphones off a little earlier and tried to read a bit.
Got MY pillow out of our bedroom, I'm sleeping in the basement bedroom, I'd drive my wife crazy with the restlessness and continually moving around. I can tell when I get up, the bed looks like a tornado hit it. :)

At least last night I fell asleep on my own, got close to 3.5 hours. I'm happy with that. Now I hope I'm back on track. No sleeping pills, just me and my pillow.

I think I'm at day 18, energy is pretty good, I don't think I'm depressed, sleep is my main concern. If I can repeat last night I'd be happy. Give me 3 - 4 hours of sleep a night with no sleep aids would be a victory.

It's all about the little things now. Getting a decent night sleep on your own, going to the gym and socializing. Staying in a good positive state of mind instead of beating yourself up over every little thing thats not going your way in recovery. No one said it would be easy, actually it was (is) not as bad as I expected, I've gone through worse than this over the years. I will try and stop whining about the sleep. It depresses me to.
Heres to a great day and a better tomorrow.

Gary


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:47 am 
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That's great news Gary! When you woke up from your few hours of sleep did you feel better than when you were taking the sleep aids? I know that those kind of things usually give me that hangover feeling the next morning. That can be almost as frustrating as not sleeping at all!

I wonder if hitting the gym yesterday had any part in you being able to sleep on your own?

I hear ya on the cold weather. I know you all are alot colder than we are, but I'm sick of it too! I looked outside yesterday and noticed for the first time that my big Elm tree in the front yard is starting to bud out! Spring is near my friend!

Q

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:37 am 
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Hi Q

Your kinda lucky, I look outside my window and all I can see is snow. The trees are too scared to start budding. :) It's like 8F here.

It was nice getting to sleep without any sleeping pills, and getting 3-4 hours was great. I still woke up feeling a bit gloomy but I'm going to hit the gym again and try to get things moving along.

Getting motivated is tough, the cold weather doesn't help but I'll push my way out the door like it or not. Once I get there I'm all in. Going back to work for a few days starting Thursday. 4 days total.

I'm definitly in better shape than the last time I was in. Just need to work on my sleep. Last night was a good sign.
Send some of that warmer weather this way please. Any little bit will do.

Gary


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:29 pm 
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hey iwilldothis,

Of course you know by now sleep is the last thing to return to normal. I came off 2mg over the summer and for a couple weeks I got no sleep. Luckily I was in a treatment center so they were able to try different meds on me right away. The med that allowed me to finally sleep 8hrs/night within a couple weeks off subs was trazadone. NOW, I do not recommend taking this med for longer than a month or so because I began having stomach problems and other side effects from the med from long term use(I took it for like 5 months though). It is however non-addicting and makes you sleep like nothing else I have tried(including benzos). I took 150mg of trazadone and was out within 15 minutes. Ask your doctor about it. Again, its non addicting.

Now, without meds, it will take awhile to get back to normal. I had a few slips since the summer and was on trazadone until october, so its hard to know how long it took for my sleep to return. Since my last slip three months ago I am in a completely normal sleep routine without ANY meds whatsoever. I won't even take melatonin. Im on this new philosophy that if I don't alter my body and mind in anyway I will get to a normal state naturally. And it worked!!


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:45 pm 
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@livin,

Thanks for that, if tonight goes sleepless, I will be seeing my doc tomorrow. Last night I fell asleep on my own. First time in about 3 days. I know sleep is the last thing you get back but I should be able to fall asleep for a few hours. I'd be happy with that for now. Got between 3-4 hours last night.

I am trying to let my body heal itself without any drugs but there comes a point where you have to get some rest. If it wasn't for no sleep I'd be well on my way.

I'll look up Trazadone and see what it's about. Thanks for the support and info as I could use all the help I can get.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:02 am 
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Day 19 - looking back the WD's weren't that bad. Yea, you feel down, some RLS, lack energy and feel like your carrying a weight around with you but surprisingly the easy part. Nothing like some of the WD's I've had in the past.

If it wasn't for not being able to fall asleep I would be in a great frame of mind. I realize that the sleep thing is the last to come back. My brain is so used to a drug induced sleep it forgot how do it without any help. Once this week I fell asleep on my own. The rest of the time I have tried all kinds of different methods without much success. The only thing that gets me out is the Clonidine. It won't give me a good nights sleep but lets me all asleep. The only good thing with the Clonidine is I wake up without that hang over feeling in the morning that can last all day. I don't care if I get 3-5 hours a night, that I can deal with but not being able to fall asleep without drugs is worry some. I've also have Clonazapam (Klonopin), but I wake up feeling like crap so there in the garbage.I know I'm only 19 days in but from what I've read from others, I should be able to fall asleep on my own. If I don't take something I have been up for over 40 hours and even then need something.

It's not RLS that's keeping me up it's a restless mind and body. All I do is toss and turn and then get up, read, watch tv, listen to music and try again. After failing again I'm resorting to Clonidine. Probably not the best thing to do but I'm at a loss of what else to do.

I wish there were an easy solution to this but I know I have to work through it. My BRAIN is healing.
Today I'm going to visit my GP and discuss some other options.

Even with this sleep crap I still can't believe I'm heading into 3 weeks kinda clean. If it weren't for the sleep aids I would be totally clean.

Better days ahead,

Gary


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:49 pm 
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Bah... Don't take that away from yourself.... you're CLEAN man. You're not dependent nor addicted to the sleep aids, that's like saying someone who took a few tylenol for headache isn't "clean".... So, be proud, you've been FULLY CLEAN for 19 days. That's awesome!

The Trazadone could work for you, I think I remember using it one time for insomnia and YES it put me out... It may not cause a physical addiction, but someone can become dependent on anything. So as with any drug and our addict minds, be careful. Try to only take it when you HAVE to and hopefully you wont have to rely on them for long.

Lastly, I wish you Canadians would keep your damn Polar Vortex to yourself. We don't need that shit down in the states!!

I live in the Sub Tropics and it has snowed TWICE this year with snow on the ground for multiple days. I know that seems petty, but it's not supposed to get that cold here. Hell I only have a heat pump, so when it gets below 35 degrees F, my damn heater doesn't shut off....

It's still refreshing to to see the positive attitude even when I know the sleep thing is starting to wear thin. Now, it's as much a mental game as it is physical. I am like you, I never knew how to fall asleep, I knew how to pass out. for the last 15-20 years of my life I don't think I ever "fell asleep".... I would take drugs until I passed out, if I didn't pass out, I hadn't done enough drugs.... If I woke up early, I did drugs to pass out until it was time to get up. My body is just used to that. I bet yours is too. Now we have to learn the tricks that others use to fall asleep normally. Maybe Google search learning how to meditate. There is also some good advice that may help you that targeted at people learning to fall asleep without a TV on or a fan. It's all about retraining your brain. Don't ever lay in bed for more than 10-15 min. If you don't sleep by then, get up for 30 min then try again. Don't do anything in your room other than sleep and to take care of marital duties (I apologize to all the ladies out there as this makes it seem like a chore, when I do not view it as such). You want to sub consciously teach your brain that the bedroom is for sleeping or that's the idea of. Maybe some of the things that help to teach a child to sleep without a bottle or pacifier would help. I know it sounds a little condescending but hey, it's all about training and getting better.

I can't wait for the day that I am in your shoes. You're doing something so many of us are dreaming about. I say it everyday, but cannot say it enough. You have truly been an inspiration to me.

Much love,

John

(As always sorry for the grammar errors)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:32 pm 
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hey John,
You seem to always have a way to pick up my spirits. But yea, this is bumming me out. I'm tired of being tired. I know it's only been 19 days but WTF. It's kind of looking like I have to take something for the time being to just get 3-5 hours a night. Like I said before i'm fine with 3-5 hours but I really was not counting on sleep aids.

Should I have stopped the "Thomas's Recipe" by now. Maybe something in there is contributing to the sleepless nights. I don't know, I'm grasping at straws.

I don't lay in bed too long if I'm getting restless. 3 times last night I got up and finally gave in an took a clonidine. I'm done with Klonopin. Feel worse during the day with that.

I'd like to know where this global warming is happening. This has been the coldest and longest winter I can remember. Us Canadians like to share whatever we can with you guys. :)
Can you share a little warmth with us.

Back to work for 4 days starting tomorrow. Going to freeze my ass off. I'm cold sitting in my house with the heat up to 73F.

Hopefully when I see my GP today he can ease my mind a bit. He knew I was going to get off the Subs but didn't know when. I also know there is no magical solution that doesn't require some sort of drug. My doc is a geat guy but he really has no idea what we are going through. The last time I was there he went on line to see what may help me when I decide to get off Subs.

Thanks for your support John


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:27 pm 
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Gary Bro!. Your 2 days short of 3 weeks! Holy shit. Your rounding second base man. Sleep will Most Definitely come soon. Keep pushing yourself to workout, and when you feel like jumping off the treadmill, double the time you already clocked. Force your body to get over that heavy feeling . Do you get that Crazy warm endorphin feeling going through your body at night yet? BTW I took XNX for maybe a week straight last year when I fucked my car up. I couldn't sleep right for atleast ten days afterword. It's good to see you threw that out. Focus on the finish line bro. This is Mental. I get that sleeping is physical, But it's partially mental too. Keep it up Gary. I'll be checking in and thanks for the Post. Peace

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:59 pm 
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@hOpe,
You are right, I get that heavy feeling in the upper body. It makes you want to drag your ass around.
The only feeling I get at night are chills, cold feet, restlessness and no sleep. Other than that I feel great. :)

Just came back from my GP, he gave something else to try. No more than 3 days in a row. Can't remember what it's called the script is in my truck. Still have to pick it up. I think it is Ambien but thats not what they call it here. Go figure. I know that it is highly addictive and you shouldn't take it for more than 7 - 10 days in a row. My plan is to get a couple nights of sleep and try going cold turkey again.

I have to work tomorrow and Friday and the way I am right now I couldn't make it through a full day. Too exhausted. A good nights sleep will do wonders. I am not going to get hooked on this shit, just need to get my sanity back.

Thanks for your support


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:22 pm 
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Wow, interested to know what it is, as I have never heard of Ambien being that addictive. Anyways, I hope you can get a night or two of some good sleep to help you recharge. That should boost the spirit and give you some of the "fight" back. Long nights can be brutal, especially if the day is filled with sitting around the house. Almost makes you feel like you've been sober for a year already.

You're so close know though. You have got to almost to the point where your body will give in and sleep will start to come naturally. And not to sound negative, but it could be that all those years of drug use have masked an underlying insomnia problem that you would have had anyway. You say you're not dealing with RLS, but more with "I can't turn my brain off".... I remember being that way in my teens, and why I fell in love with Pot. It made me go, DUH DUH DUH.... I have always had a very active mind. I have always been drawn to drugs that would make me stupid and NOT THINK. I never got into speed as I NEVER wanted to stay up, I loved it when I could sleep for 14 hours, get up for a few hours then pass back out.

I know now that I was/am masking some other issue, and that I'll have to deal with it once I "get sober" but I am sick and tired of being sick and tired. Maybe trying to NOT THINK is not the way to go, maybe you should try to concentrate on one thing that's peaceful and just try to drown out an other thoughts. Of course all of this is now speculation. You have made it farther than I have been. From now on I'll expect you to keep copious notes so that when it's time for me to take the test I already have most of the answers :)

(Sorry if I am rambling or making no sense, still getting used to this dosage... feeling off, not terrible, and better than the alternative, but still "off")

Much Love,

John

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:23 pm 
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I like it when you ramble John, :)

Here in Canada the sleep aid is called Sublinox (zolpidem ), it's kind of strange it starts with Sub. I'm pretty sure it's the same family as Ambien. I did research it and it is not something you want to take on a steady bases. I will try a couple of nights first and then not take any for a couple of nights and see how it goes.
The trouble for tonight is the Pharmacy didn't have any. They will be in tomorrow. I probably could have checked around but I had a busy night with my grandson and hockey.

Now I'm getting a cold. Dry cough , chills, feel crappy, Wait a minute I felt like that before I got the cough.
You know whats strange, I felt better last week than I do this week. I could fall asleep on my own. Might have something to do with getting sick, and PAWS setting in at the same time.
Have to go in to work tomorrow, and Friday. At least if they ask me why I look like shit I can tell them I have a cold.
We have a lot in common in our younger days, I was the same way. Maybe your right, I really never had to fall asleep on my own. The trouble is it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks.

As for you, you should be pretty stable within a week once you find the dose that will subside your cravings.

Thanks John,
Going to try and get some sleep, long day tomorrow, my wife gave me a couple of her sleeping pills. I have to get some sleep or I will be useless tomorrow.

Gary


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:45 pm 
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I know what you mean about getting sick... I one time (Not more than a month now) got a stomach virus, bad virus, and it mimicked all the classic WDs symptoms. So much so that of course my wife went ballistic thinking I was an ass for using again and wasn't too long before that I had went on my last big bender, the binge that brought me here looking for help. It almost had me convinced that I had WDs... I mean that was the norm right.... It wasn't until ,y son and daughter got sick that I and my wife realized that it wasn't WDs.

I don't really know where I was going with this except to say that we have been so bad to our bodies that we almost accept feeling like shit as normal because we have put the damn thing through so much crap. If my wife started throwing up with cold chills and such, I would know she was sick and seek help... With me, it was almost expected and it went 3-4 days before any action was taken other than a lot of yelling and door slamming.

You're right, that's ambien. Ambien can be crazy... Make sure you are where you want to sleep when you take it... 15-20 min later your are asleep standing up (under normal conditions and hopefully your case). That stuff is no joke and can have you sleep walking or worse without remembering it. I have faith in you though as you're not out to abuse it.

Also, Ambien will be much better for you than the Klonopin as you wont have that "drunk" feeling in the morning. Ambiens half life is really short. I say that, but you need to have 8 hours... so don't take it too late at night.

Much love to you and I wish you all the luck with some sleep, if anyone deserves a decent rest it's you! I am sending up warm thoughts of deep sleep. I hope it helps!!

Much Love,

John

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:59 pm 
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HA! I can't believe how all over the place that last post was.... I can't wait to stabilize and be back to normal...

LOL, almost no WDs except runny nose and cold chills. 70 degrees in the house and I have on exactly:

2 pairs of socks
2 pairs of sweat pants
1 pair of boxer/briefs
1 tee shirt
1 long sleeve thermal underwear type shirt
1 sweat shirt
Wrapped in a blanket....

what a sight I must be... I need to take a picture that way I can look at it and see how foolish I have made myself as motivation to NOT go down this road again.

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" Each relapse starts with one thought— maybe, just maybe, this time will be different… that little thought has killed thousands and thousands of opiate addicts over the years."
- Dr Jeffery Junig (Subox Doc)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2014 5:54 am 
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Hey John,
This cold just hit another level. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a cold. I've always been on the healthy side, don't ask me how, maybe the drugs that have been in my body scared the germs away. Other than the chest cold added in it feels like the worst WD's I've had since I started this journey.
Most of it is in my chest, it's going to be a challange to have a smoke today (another bad habit). I have quit that 2 times in my life for better than 6 years each time. That's not a good sign is it. I was suppose to quit that when I retired. Another thing she isn't to happy about.

With the help of my wife I got maybe 5 hours sleep last night. If it wasn't for going into to work for a few days I wouldn't of taken anything last night.

That shit (Sublinox) I'm getting today is no joke. It won't be something I will take more than 2 days in a row. I have to break this cycle.
I'm pretty sure this is how I got sick. Days and days with very little or no sleep. Helping a buddy move all day after being up all night. Wearing myself down to nothing.

I know what you mean by always being cold . I keep turning the thermostat up to 73-74F in the house. Have the fireplace going in the recroom. Wear slippers, yes slippers all day in the house or my feet will freeze. Runny nose, chills, still sneezing, and it feels like I'm carrying 100lbs of weight around my chest.
Life is good. :) I know it sounds like I've been whinning alot lately, more pissed off with myself for letting this get me down more than anything.

Some warmer weather would be the best medicine right now. I know I've been bitching about the cold weather but it's been a long cold winter.

At least we have a Forum where friends will listen to us bitch and still never judge us. If it wasn't for this site I think I might feel hopeless. But there is still a lot of fight left in this old body.

Well, later my friend, I'm off to work, should have left 10 minutes ago. One thing for sure is I don't need an alarm clock to wake up at 4am. Come to think of it for years I would wake up before 4am and just shut my alarm clock off before it went off. I guess staying a sleep has always been tough for me.

Worked shifts for the better part of 34 years. Just the last 2-3 years I had a day job.
I finally got the job I wanted and retired on them. :)

Later buddy


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