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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:12 am 
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except...i don't believe one needs meetings for the rest of their life(i think thats what he says) if they taper off subox and see a therapist, or not...everyone is different and every counciler is biased- hopefully their biasims arent too radical. many in the addiction community have very radical beliefs from whay yheyve seen work-but, it doesn't necessarily mean it will for everyone....remember- shrinks are only people too


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:15 am 
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this was supossed to be a responce to livins thread " i will not try to gloat"....i pushed the wrong button, forgive me


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:11 am 
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Yeah, I don't believe everyone needs a meeting every single day. When some people are in serious crisis mode, they keep from going out by going to many meetings a day and that works for them. When I got sober and started going regularly to meetings, I tried going everyday and I was barely seeing my husband at all. As soon as he got home, I left for a meeting and when I got back, he was going to bed. Kinda took a toll on our relationship! There is no 'one size fits all' way of doing things, and going to a meeting everyday for the rest of one's life would be a HUGE amount of time spent on meetings and not other things that could be positive.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:55 pm 
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I finally got a referral and saw a shrink yesterday for the paws after being clean for over 50 days. I'm still not sleeping much and he gave me some trazodone. The day before that I finally told my primary doctor who has bee subscribing me opiates for over seven years that I won't be asking him to refill my subscriptions any more. I wish I had a camera in my phone because it would have been a great photo to post here. I have been picking up my scrips for the last 5 months and throwing them in one of my safes. I know about the temptations but truely I don't even think about it. its just another barter item when the economy crashes. I don't plan on going to meetings though as I don't feel I need the support. I read a study that the folks who are most successful just decide to quit on their own and never look back.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:26 am 
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Indigo, your avatar is really freaking me out-- I'll never get to sleep tonight.

I do not disagree with you. I am usually making the comment you refer to in response to someone saying that 'you shouldn't take Suboxone, because you aren't really clean if you do.' I have known people who died from believing that crap-- and if I've known a few people in my small world, there must be tens of thousands of people dying for fear of getting 'hooked on Suboxone.' My point is that opioid dependence is a very tenacious condition, and most people will require some type of treatment for life--- which for some may be meetings, but for others may be a very strict set of self-imposed boundaries. For example, I think the biggest risk for relapse after long-term sobriety is the 'accidental discovery' of a pain pill; the addict suddenly believes that God has blessed him for some reason, or that it is 'fate', or some other excuse to justify taking it. That one dose doesn't kill the person, but it makes the person much more susceptible to using again in the future, as they will think that 'I used and it didn't kill me'...

Remembering this dynamic so you are prepared for it can happen through meetings... or a person can simply know, for certain, that if he ever comes across a tab of something, he will RUN. Don't think-- just run.

Frankly, I argue against the oft-heard argument by doctors that 'counseling is necessary'-- simply because there are PLENTY of bad couselors out there. I don't mean to pick on that field-- there are plenty of bad doctors as well.

I must say that I have several people right now in my practice who have been on Suboxone for several years, who I am sure (well, pretty sure) will do OK after stopping Suboxone. A couple are in the process, and a couple will be soon. They are working good jobs, they have no using friends, they have non-using partners, and they HATED who they were when they were using. It would take several steps for them to relapse-- and that works in their favor, in my opinion.

Let me amend the statement I have apparently suggested about a lifetime of meetings to say that staying clean requires a lifetime of vigilance-- and from what I have seen, nobody gets 'cured' from the susceptibility to relapse. Of course, now with buprenorphine, relapse doesn't have to be a death sentence anymore.

Thanks Indigo-- BTW, does anyone know-- is indigo a dude or a chick? pretty creepy looking....


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:26 am 
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Dr. Junig,

Have you never heard of the rock group called H.I.M.??? Come on, I thought you were "with it"? :lol:

Indigo's avatar is of Ville Valo, he's the lead singer of H.I.M. (I think it stands for His Infernal Majesty??)

Their from Finland, so I guess I can understand why you haven't heard of them.

Anyway, my favorite song by them is Wings of a Butterfly. Killing Loneliness is great too!!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:07 am 
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It's reminiscent of Ozzy in his younger days. Oops! I'm giving away my age!


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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