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PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:46 pm 
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I would appreciate advice, or should I say warning on what I am preparing for. Long story short, I was a heavy opiate addict for several years, till April 2008 I went to treatment, and got clean. I stayed 100% clean for 18 months, then relapsed on OC's. My relapse on OC was very short lived, like two weeks of use, then I decided to get suboxone from a friend so I could get clean again, because I'd remembered how in treatment they did a 10 day suboxone detox program on me to help me through opiate withdrawl. Well, as it turns out I have been taking 4mgs of suboxone every day for about 3 months, and I have to stop. I have to be clean again. I did not taper, I took the last 4mg this morning. I have withdrawled many times, but never from suboxone. I remember the mild lack of energy and dysphoria I got when I finished the 10day suboxone detox in treatment, but it wasnt too bad. So...18 months clean, immediately followed by 4mg a day for 3 months. I have stopped, and have no choice because my supplier has moved out of town. Can I get some ideas on how bad my withdrawls are going to be, how long, etc. Things I can do to alleviate it minus doctors help. Thanks for any ideas.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 12:31 pm 
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That sucks that you were unable to taper off. If at all possible, I would HIGHLY reccomend getting into a sub doc that can give you a months supply to taper off of.
I "jumped off" (read my posts) at 8mg, and I was only on suboxone for a month. It has been hell on earth for the last 3 weeks. I cant sugar coat it for you. Jumping off at 4mg will probably suck royally as well. Ive read about people coming off at .5mg and it being shitty for like 2 weeks!
Im not a doctor and I dont play one on tv, but If I were you, and if you absolutely cannot see a doc, I would get yourself some gatorade, vitamins, immodium, and hot baths. All the same stuff that you would do if detoxing off OC's. The good news is that you probably have a few days to prepare, as you might not feel anything till day 3 or so.
My dad (who is NOT an addict) has convinced me to walk as much as possible and be as POSITIVE AS YOU CAN because its proven to help.
Good luck and stay on this site for more info.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 1:00 pm 
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Hi Toddrick, and welcome,

I agree with PUELLAPEA about trying to find a suboxone doctor. I'm still on subox, but I've read lots of stories about quitting and from 4 mg you can expect withdrawals.

You said that you have to quit the subox and must "get clean". If I may ask, what is it that makes you think being on suboxone instead of active addiction with OC's makes you not clean? If you're comfortable telling your story, I think you'll find great empathy and advice from the people here.

Whatever you decide, be it finding a subox doc or going cold turkey, I wish you well. And please keep us posted - you found a great site here and again, welcome.

Take care.

Melissa


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:49 pm 
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Well for me to say I'm clean when I'm taking suboxone is the same as saying I'm clean when taking any other narcotics. The situation is a little more complicated as I did not tell the whole story obviously. I'm on probation, albeit inactive unsupervised. But being dependent on subs the last few months...its the same ole chase, same ole me, same ole addict. I have to have it. If I have to have a substance to feel normal, I'm definitely not clean. Thats just me. I hear people at the Methadone clinic say they are clean, and I'm just dumbfounded, but I wont dare argue it. You cant argue with someone who is doped up. I could get called in to probation at any time, and I promise you, if I'm taking subs, I'm going to serve out my sentence. That's why I had to quit suddenly. I realized it gone to far.

Now tell me this, when I first got clean, I came off of 140 mgs of methadone a day, plus I was doing 160-240 mgs of OC on top of that, every day. This went on for 3 years. When I went to treatment, the really bad part lasted a few days. Then it was just a gradual progression out of lack of energy and slight depression. Oh and it was 6 months before I passed a solid stool. The first replier to my post makes it sound like coming off 4mgs for 3 months is going to be hell. I know it wont be fun, but hell? Am I missing something here? Is sub detox worse than OC/methadone detox????? If not, I know what to expect.

Well I'm on day 2 right now, and I can honestly say I feel fine. A little run down. I expect my body to ache for a few days, then to be tired and a depressed for another week. I have no access whatsoever to any narcotics, and I can't go to a doctor for narcotics because of probation. So here I go. I just have to tough it out. I've done it before, I can do it again. Question is, can I sustain sobriety this time around.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 5:55 pm 
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I'm sorry guys and girls. The last thing I want anyone to tell me is "dont quit."


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 8:57 pm 
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Hey- sorry if I sounded negative in my other post. My understanding is that 4mg of suboxone is about the same as 30mg of methadone. Dont quote me on that though.
No one told me that I would have hellish withdrawals for 3 weeks so I was just trying to prepare you for the worst. I feel like I was totally misinformed by my doc, and my detox experience has been pretty rough. Ive never been on methadone but ive heard the detox sucks royally so if you made it through that im sure you will do fine with this. Try and keep a positive attitude and keep posting, it helps.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:01 pm 
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Everyone's withdrawal is different. Some people report quitting Sub at 8mgs a day and never feeling anything, others taper down to 1mg and say it's hell. I think the fact that you have handled withdrawals well in the past would predict that it won't be too bad for you this time either.

As far as the clean/not clean thing, I tend to think of it in terms of "in recovery" or "not in recovery". Suboxone frees a lot of us from the obsession/compulsion to use opiates and lets us get our lives back. To me, that's recovery, clean or not.

To get thru the Sub withdrawals I'd say get as much rest as possible, use OTC sleep aids if you need them, immodium, vitamins, stay hydrated, get exercise every day and distract yourself as much as possible. Hot baths and ibuprofin for the aches and you can take valerian for anxiety. That's about it.

Good luck.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:38 pm 
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I like what you said about recovery. Clean, to me, is different. Clean from substances. Free from dependence on a narcotic is what I want and why I stopped, along with the lingering prison sentence if I were to fail a drug test. You can be in recovery and on subs IF you are working on the problem, that is, actually working on a recovery. Taking subs alone is definitely not recovery, but could give you the possibility of recovery. I can see that.

Thanks for the post. I admit, right now, just being two days off subs, although I feel fine, I'm craving OC's already. Insane. I have a pretty good support group though, multiple sponsors, just gotta use em. Nice to know I'm not in this alone.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:02 pm 
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I don't want to 'rock your boat' but don't forget about the half life of subs... It's similar to methadone. You should know the extent of your WD's by third to fifth day. I agree with previuos post regarding your ability to tolerate. Should be good based on your experience with quiting 140mg Methadone + OC. I assume you only used the OC with meth occasionally, otherwise you were wasting them and your meth. I was on methadone for years and could only get a buzz by varying my takehome doses along with an occasional benzo. Never been to prison but have heard that can make a guy pretty tough... mentally & physically. If you're still young and strong... you'll be fine. Keep us posted on how you're doing.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Well I have never been to prison...yet. I have a sentence hanging over my head. As for the OC and methadone, I actually did both all the time together. Yes, a total waste of the OC, but thats neither here nor there. I'm at the end of day 3 now, and I'm at work, and I definitely feel like crap. Extremely run down, achey, but I think I'm going to make it.

Thanks for the replies.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:41 am 
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Hi Toddrick -

I'm pulling for you. If you are able, it would be great for us to know how you are doing. Today, Thursday, you should probably be finding out if you are going to be hit hard, medium, or small with w/d's.

Stay strong, hang tough, and please let us know how you are!


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:09 pm 
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Very glad to hear you haven't been to prison! I thought it sounded like you had... and tried to pull something positive from that. Which is the key for you... your mental attitude. A slow taper would obviously be better for you but since that isn't an option... stay positive, get exercise, and go to some meetings or get some kind of support system in place.

I'm pulling for you!

Take care...


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 24, 2010 9:45 pm 
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I just wanted to update everyone and thank everyone for input. I'm at the end of day 7 of coming off of 4mg of sub. Remember I was on 4mg a day for only about 7 weeks. The physical withdrawl only lasted five days. Even it wasnt that bad. I only slept a few hours a night for the first 5 days, and felt achey for those days too. I took one day off of work, day 3. I did have some bladder issues for a couple of the days. Ass was on fire bad for one day. Now I just feel run down, tired. Moody, yes. Definitely getting better.

So for anyone in a similar spot as me, i definitely advise to try to stop before your dosage goes up and you get 6 months in. It was not bad. Very bearable. NOTHING compared to methadone withdrawl. Thanks for all who gave me input. Good luck too all. Wish me luck in staying sober this time around. I definitely need it. I am having cravings for opiates but I'm taking it day by day. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 26, 2010 2:14 am 
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that's awesome, Toddrick. Good luck, and hang in there. I'm tapering. I'll be between 1.5 to 1mg today. I'm way chicken to just jump off. I guess I'd rather spread my withdrawals out for longer, than shorter but more intense. I may try to jump off this weekend, or rather jump off thu and have the withdrawals kick in on the weekend. Probably not though. I think I'll probably keep tapering down to where I need a microscope and tweezers to measure the dose.


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