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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:09 pm 
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Ok, I'm starting the subozone tomorrow, it was not prescribed but from a good source, & with no one knowing what is really going on as far as family, doctors or friends I am reaching out for a little advice. I have seen the many posts but want to be sure for myself as to the mg I should take.

On a normal day I would take 6-8 sometimes more of percocet 10-325 or 10-650 mostly just one at a time but often enough. Thats for 3 maybe 4 years. getting worse each year. They were originally prescribed but now I have had to buy them from others. I am tired of the addiction and this needs to stop. The suboxone I only want to use to kick this habit. I have researched it online but to no avail there are many different posts with many opinions. I dont know whether to start with 4mg 2mg or 1mg? I thought someone here would have the same experiance as I and could advice me on the pros and cons and what I should start with.

A friend I know (the one I got them from) started with 4mg, says his habit was less than mine and the suboxone would last a couple of days. I just want a second opinion of where I should start and how I should finish?

Also for those that say just quit cold turkey... I cant...... I am a single mom and need to maintain as a mom would.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:27 am 
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While I am happy that you have chosen to end the nightmare, I really would like to tell you how important I feel it is to purchase Suboxone legally and get the support and treatment that comes with it through a physician/treatment facility.
It is not safe to wing it on your own, there are many factors that come into play with induction of Suboxone. As a rule of thumb, the target dose is the lowest dose that prevents withdrawal.For some it is 4mg, some 8mg, etc. Every case in different.
Do you think this is something you can manage completely on your own? If you say Yes, it would be a typical response.We try to conceal our drug abuse for so long- then we try to conceal our treatment. I just really think you need a recovery program.If you want some links to helpful information and support, just let me know.

PS- Above it all, glad you are working on making positive changes. Please keep posting and let us know how things go with your journey! Take Care!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:40 am 
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You maybe just tricking yourself... "we'll if I take these I'll get better...."
Get a Doctor! They actually do more then just give you pills and say have a nice day or just take your meds away one day.
They offer so much information and support.

Plus... your pills will be cheaper to buy from a doctor then a third party.

Do 5 minutes of research on the internet for a local substance abuse treatment program.
I called the very first one I found. Things have never been BETTER!

No more thinking of excuses to give the doctor as to why you're out of pills... No more faking injury at a E.R or Urgent Care.

One phone call and BAM.... 5 refills waiting for me. :)


I'm prescribed three 8mg per day.
Sometimes I take three per day and most days I only need 1 1/2 - 2 tabs! I just forget to take them; which is perfect!


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 Post subject: Day 1 10/22/09
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:28 pm 
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Shelwoy,
Thanks for the response, I just checked when I got home from work. It is day one for me and I guess could be better. Yes I know I should go see a Dr. but I have got myself in this mess in plan on getting myself out of it. So I could use the helpful links and the postive support.
Today at 9am I started with my first dose of 1mg, when that didn't seem to help I took another 1mg about 30-40 mins later. that held me over until now and I'm thinking about taking another mg. I think maybe tomorrow if I could just take the right dose maybe 4mg that would hold me all day and not need another dose. I know this where a Dr comes in to play but i just thought i could get some experience and support here and complete this mission on my own.

I was use to taking 6-8 10mg percocet a day for years and now its time to stop. I'm not trying to trick myself i'm trying to better myself, and right now although I dont have the energy I have to go play outsife with my 5 year old daughter.

any advice is welcome other than go see a doc.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:59 pm 
Mis818 - I feel your pain. I am a mother, too and so many other things as I'm sure you are as well. It is so very difficult to get off opiates! Even when we're "tough" enough to endure the physical aspects of withdrawal, the psych aspects will lure us back to using almost every time.
I think as women, we feel such pressure to perform in all aspects of our lives - as wives, moms, employees, etc. If we are sitting still for more than 15 minutes, we feel guilty! I know exactly what you mean when you say you can't just quit due to all of your responsibilities. I don't know if you've ever quit before for more than a few days or not. If so, you know that the physical symptoms of quitting cold turkey will be mostly over with after about 5-6 very long days. Miserable, but doable. If only that were the end of the story! Truth is, unless you're something awfully special and very lucky, your battle will just be beginning. After the withdrawals are over, you will suffer from a depressed mood, find difficulty finding pleasure in anything, find it nearly impossible to feel motivated to do anything. It took all the willpower in me just to get up, shower and get dressed. I was so weak and discouraged, I had to sit down in a chair to get through blow drying my hair and putting some make up on! That is not me! I really cannot tell you how wrong I was when I thought, "just let me get through the detox and I can function through anything else" I was not prepared for how miserable my life would be after quitting opiates.
By the way, my habit was very close to the same as yous, give or take a little depending on the day.
I don't mean to go on and on. I just really want you to understand that using a little Suboxone for a few days is not going to be much of an answer for you sweetie. It may soften your landing just a little bit as you withdraw, but after you're done with the Sub, you're gonna be in a tough spot with all the post acute withdrawal symptoms I eluded to before. It's absolute hell to have to struggle to find the ability to be a decent mother, to just function at some kind of level near normal.
Ideally, you would get yourself a doctor and do this the right way, but it sounds like that's not where you're at right now. So let's work with where you're at! From what I understand - many docs start patients on unnecessarily high dose (16mg/day) when most addicts just need 4-8mg/day. So if I were you I'd try 4mg and see if that holds you for 24 hours. If it does, stay on that for a week (or longer if you decide to do this the 'right' way with a doc and a reasonable taper schedule). Then drop to 3mg/day for at least a week, then to 2mg/day for at least a week. Then you've got to slow the taper down even more once you drop below 2mg, taking it very slowly over thecouse of another month or so till you get down to just a crumb/day.
There is a liquified taper method availble to view on this forum that appears to work well - take a look at that for help.
I want you to find healing from your addiction just the same as I want it for myself. The thing is girl it's just not that simple. Addiction is such a complex, cunning, deceiving, degrading, demoralizing devil that we cannot expect to come out victorious after a couple weeks on Suboxone! It just aint gonna work. God, I wish it were that easy!
I would encourage you to develop a bigger plan of action for your recovery. Read all you can about opiate addiction, look at the statistics for relapse, be realistic and be honest with yourself. Do whatever you have to do to get this demon monkey off your back! It wants to kills us, if not literally, figuratively - it wants to be more important than our children, our jobs, our parents, our morals, our values. It wants to be our God, rule us. Think about it that way and let's get ready to freakin fight this thing. Get all the weaponry and back up we can get. Build a strong fort so the addiction can't get back to you. It's hard but it can be done. People on this forum have done it right - see the doc for their Sub, take it as Rx, do counseling, support groups, etc. These people are doing well. Listen to them. They know what they're talking about.
I'm afraid that if you are determined to do this on your own, you won't be successful long term. So be careful.
We all do want to help you and hope only the best for you and we all understand!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:21 am 
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Mis818 - I must admit I totally understand where you are coming from. I wish you well - been where you are, but I'm a man, a dad with a job and a wife with health issues and kids. Around here, I put pressure on myself. setmefree - has good advice if you are determinded as I was before this week - got in this - am getting out. Nobody needs to get involved, tough it out somehow.

If you decide to look at alternatives later, like I finally did - I thought I'd tell you what i found. It was not a "pain clinic" or some imagined equivalent place. I found a local family practice - people who understand families, pressures, and the dynamics of all the pressures. The understand that 15% (according to my doc today) - are disease able. He put it like this to me. If we put 100 people in the hospital and put oxy in them for a couple weeks 24x7. When we got done and put all 100 out to cold/turkey withdraw - after all the pain/discomfort this is what would happen.

85 people would be upset that the medication made them feel woosy, dizzy, constipated, and basically they hated the effects. They could walk away and not be affected.

15 people would (be like me) - and after the agony of the withdrawl - they would be like - wow - that gave me energy, it gave me an escape, it gave me a high and I liked that - and where do I sign up for that program?

That's simplistic, I know. But it helped me today. There is a disease - well documented and studied that 15% of us are almost unable to say no - without help.

If you work through all you do, and end up like me - try to tough it out only to end up with another story why it's OK to take another percocet, then getting help will probably seem easier, I went a couple weeks without - one won't hurt - then fail again, and then feel shame and all that junkola... then consider a doc. It was not what I suspected. No judgment, or 3rd degree - only understanding that disease is disease - suboxone is a tool to help us - as we realize we are one of the 15 people unable to say no...

I'm praying for you, that somehow you can pull off what I could not. Relapse hurts in every way - lets yourself down, yada, yada. If you can find a nice family practice clinic - similar to where you might take sick kids, it is less scary (I can say that on this side of the visit - before .. umm it was a little scary).. but the folks here at this forum are spot on.

Best of luck. I am on step one of a longer path. 7-10 years of up/down/all around it get's so old. Please don't feel like I'm saying you have to go to a doc. I am saying that when you are ready for more help it may not be what you think with a doc. (15% of the potential population is a big number - there are lots of us out there).. YOU ARE NOT ALONE. I hope this helps some.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:06 pm 
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Well, it is so helpful to find other folks, mom and dads, who find themselves hookied on opiates for real pain, then are hooked. I will be brief, but i have had at least 6 surgeries in the last 5 years, and at least 5 previous to that. Never got hooked. Then divorce, death of ex a month later, 3 kids who count on me, and antidepressents losing effectiveness. I used the vicodin for pain, but when I almost died from two mood stabalizers prescribed in the months following the death of my childern's dad, i lost all faith in Dr. Being a mom, I did what I had to do, took pain meds so I could be STRONG for my kids. thought, oh, it will get easier, but guess what, a year of grief was just the beginning, my kids need me now more then ever, and I am finally seeing a great therapist, switch psychiatrists, and ready to stop using pain meds to survive. I totally believe everyone should take what they need for their pain, my story is the anxiety it is causing is worse then being in pain at this point. SO, tomorrow is the day, no pain meds, Monday, suboxone induction. As a mom, I am more freaked out about no being present for my kids while I spend a day which i know will be unpleasant. So stupid, but I can tell you folks understand how hard it is to put yourself first even for a day. Any stories anyone can share about their withdrawals and induction would help ease my anxiety. Good luck to all and remember, even moms and dads need some compassion, even if it is from yourself.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:25 pm 
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Hi cheryllynn!

Hang tough if you can. I am a Dad, and a good full time professional job - and even 1 day in w/d scared me like crazy. setmefree confirmed that I would have the best odds if I waited 24 hours for 'short acting' opiates. It was a difficult 24 hours, with the typical runny nose, aches, sneezes, even for me lose bowels... BUT... It is worth it! You can do it! If your goal is to feel 'normal' rather than roller coaster all the time - you are on the right track. I don't know if you have much support around you, but if you would have the freedom to w/d without the kids needing things - it might be a good idea. Still - YOU KNOW what it's going to be like to a degree. I'm a few days into my treatment, and each day I realize more and more that the up and down for me personally - the 4 hours UGH - was really feeling horrible, and taking more pills to get to feel 'less than normal.' I feel more 'normal' right this moment than when I was taking 25mg's of oxy (a 10mg perc, and a 15mg roxicodone) - after 4 hours. It's amazing to me to think that a dose that would put most people into a stupor - didn't even get me feeling normal -as I do now.

Why all the yackity, yack?... it's WORTH IT! YOU CAN DO IT! Be realistic - as you go through the induction - you won't get high - but after a couple hours (for me anyway) you will suddenly realize you are able to participate in things, and it's just uphill from there. This forum is the best place I've been so far.

I'm looking forward to hearing how you were able to tough out the w/d's Sunday. Give yourself the liberty to take that first step of freedom. I have kids and they have a more normal dad today than a week ago. I am also feeling differently about myself as I move forward. Strong for your kids also means taking care of yourself as well. Please post us on how your first day goes. Sunday may be a little rough - nice warm tub's/showers help :) And post us Monday a few hours after your induction. I look forward to it.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:19 pm 
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Similar sitution, single mom, caould not do cold turkey, take vicodin, less then your dose, but using suboxone to get off. Told to wait about 24 hours after last pain med. Then, take 2 mg, dissolve under tongue, then another 2 about 12 hours or so later. He also gave me something to sleep, because he said I could get insomnia??? I am very sensitive to meds, so i think my dose is quite small. Please make sure someone knows wht you are dong so if you r not getting the meds from a dr, and good luck. He also said I will prob feel a little nauseous, or achey, but not bad, worse on the 4th day or so. I am starting Monday, so I will let you know. Let me know how you do also. Single moms need each other.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:20 pm 
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Similar sitution, single mom, caould not do cold turkey, take vicodin, less then your dose, but using suboxone to get off. Told to wait about 24 hours after last pain med. Then, take 2 mg, dissolve under tongue, then another 2 about 12 hours or so later. He also gave me something to sleep, because he said I could get insomnia??? I am very sensitive to meds, so i think my dose is quite small. Please make sure someone knows wht you are dong so if you r not getting the meds from a dr, and good luck. He also said I will prob feel a little nauseous, or achey, but not bad, worse on the 4th day or so. I am starting Monday, so I will let you know. Let me know how you do also. Single moms need each other.


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 Post subject: Day 7 on suboxone
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2009 11:22 pm 
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well, it has been a week, and I made it The withdrawals were not as bad as the first few days of the suboxone. withdrawals were very very achy bones and joints, also stomach stuff. But, I thought it would be worse. took my first dose of suboxone on Monday morning(last week). First couple of hours I felt great, then Splitting headache, and horrible nausea. Felt like I did the first months of pregnancy. Could not sleep, felt wired that night, same feeling as when I was hooked up to morphine machine after surgeries. That freaked me out, I thought what the hell, I feel like I am on a strong narcotic. Talked to Dr. He said that all those things were normal, but didn't tell me what to expect except constipation(SOOOO00. My psychiatrist also called and she listed all the things that were considered normal, shakiness, headahe, nausea, insomnia. and more. Day 5 was very shakey, Dr said I was right on schedule, these were withdrawals from pain pills, he said that would peak around day 4, he was right. I must say, I still am waiting to feel Normal. I am very fatigued, a little lightheaded, not hungry and spacey. I did go out today though. I took my kids to a movie, stopped at a friends house, and made my kids dinner. So, although it seems as if I do not feel normal, now that I realize what I wrote, I am gettiing there. Can anyone share their side effects and how long they lasted??? I know everyone is diff and I am very sensitive to any med. Replies appreciated.


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 Post subject: Depression on suboxone
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:55 pm 
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Ok, I have now been on Suboxone for about 2 weeks. I have been sooooooo tired, very depressed,no appetite, and cannot concentrate. Has anyone with depression had it get worse while starting suboxone??? It slowly seems to be getting better, but it freaked me out. I looked at a check list on depression assessment, I had every symptom except for suicidal thoughts. My pain is actually manageable right now, it is just really hard to be so depressed. I keep telling my kids that I am adjusting to the medication i have to take. I did start a new antidepressent, very low dose. I guess I am just wondering if anyone else has had extreme fatigue, loss of appetite and or depression in the beginning weeks of treatment.


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 Post subject: Re: Day 1 10/22/09
PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 5:35 pm 
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Mis818 wrote:
Shelwoy,
Thanks for the response, I just checked when I got home from work. It is day one for me and I guess could be better. Yes I know I should go see a Dr. but I have got myself in this mess in plan on getting myself out of it. So I could use the helpful links and the postive support.


I think it would do you well to try to let go of this idea. As addicts, we all come to rely only on ourselves, and can be quite distrustful of others help, or embarrassed to take it. There are a couple of important things that would come of getting it from the doctor:

1. You would be ending the pattern of law-breaking that your addiction has caused. It is impossible to even put a price on this, knowing that you can go anywhere and do anything you need to do and you won't be arrested. Buying your Suboxone from a street source is still risking legal troubles the exact same way buying percocets did.

2. The support of a doctor. Only a doctor can make a solid recommendation on dose for you and then be able to monitor your progress and adjust your dose.

3. Having a constant supply. Nothing says relapse like running out of your Suboxone or Methadone. As most drug users know, street sources are no where near as reliable as a pharmacy, and even the most professional street supplies will run out from time to time.

That said, I have never heard of anyone only taking 1mg of Suboxone and getting any benefit. In fact, I have never even heard of someone prescribed the 2mg pills (my pharmacy doesn't even carry them).


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:25 pm 
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Hi cheryllynn- nice to see your doing well, some people talk about how easy it was to get off pills and start bupe treatment...they must be the lucky few because that wasn't the case for me either. All I can really say from your posts is keep up the good work and hang in there, it does get easier as you go along. Eating a lot better and getting outside and walking/hiking/biking/walking the dog etc. has helped me alot, and keep busy bordem = cravings

Mis818: I'm not gonna preach about getting to a doc and quit buying off the street. All I'm gonna say is take 1 dose per day, that is really important, more important than finding the "perfect" dose. The point of all this is to change behavior, the bupe just gives you the chance to do that without dying or going to jail. And just a quick example 1 pill a day x 30 days @15 per pill = 450.00, In my area a doctor + 1 pill a day costs 275.00. last thing i'm going to say, if your not going to get a doctor I respect that, but you need to tell someone about all of this. Holding all this away from your family is not fair to them, I'm sure that they will be understanding. I was so scared to tell anyone that I was an addict, I thought they would never talk to me again, but once I did I felt better than I've I've felt in years, and everyone I was afraid of have been nothing but supportive and because of them I'm still clean. If I had kept everything inside of me and hid my treatment, I'd be dead right now, or real close to it. Wish you all the luck in the world, if you need anything at all just let us all know and we will do our best to help:)

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:38 pm 
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jsp4th wrote:
Hi cheryllynn- nice to see your doing well, some people talk about how easy it was to get off pills and start bupe treatment...they must be the lucky few because that wasn't the case for me either. All I can really say from your posts is keep up the good work and hang in there, it does get easier as you go along. Eating a lot better and getting outside and walking/hiking/biking/walking the dog etc. has helped me alot, and keep busy bordem = cravings

Mis818: I'm not gonna preach about getting to a doc and quit buying off the street. All I'm gonna say is take 1 dose per day, that is really important, more important than finding the "perfect" dose. The point of all this is to change behavior, the bupe just gives you the chance to do that without dying or going to jail. And just a quick example 1 pill a day x 30 days @15 per pill = 450.00, In my area a doctor + 1 pill a day costs 275.00. last thing i'm going to say, if your not going to get a doctor I respect that, but you need to tell someone about all of this. Holding all this away from your family is not fair to them, I'm sure that they will be understanding. I was so scared to tell anyone that I was an addict, I thought they would never talk to me again, but once I did I felt better than I've I've felt in years, and everyone I was afraid of have been nothing but supportive and because of them I'm still clean. If I had kept everything inside of me and hid my treatment, I'd be dead right now, or real close to it. Wish you all the luck in the world, if you need anything at all just let us all know and we will do our best to help:)


I actually take my dose (2 pills) in 3 parts over the day. Half in the morning, a whole pill during lunch and a half in the evening. Even though Suboxone has a huge half-life like Methadone, I still only get effects from it for about 2 - 4 hours. But I was the same way with Methadone, so maybe I have a fast metabolism. I just don't want people to think they are doing something horribly wrong if their meds are wearing off in the middle of the day. It is better to split your dose into halves and take it twice a day then to be jonesing all night.

As far as letting your family know, unless we are talking specifically about the kids, you would be amazed at what they already know. Particularly if they live with you, they see the changes in behavior, see the drugged look on your face, (if you were buying drugs) money missing, going out to "meet someone", etc. It is very hard to hide a street drug addiction, no matter how naive they may be to these kinds of things. Letting them know you have a problem and are actively seeking recovery is likely to be a load off their mind and will help them sleep at night.


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