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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 5:04 pm 
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Were do I start? I'm 28 years old I have two beautiful kids, age 2 and age 3(boy and girl). I've been working as a diesel mechanic for roughly for 8 years, Im the go to guy at my work. I own a nice house with just about everything I could ever want. Sounds like i have the life that most dream about, you would think that would be enough to keep me off drugs, wrong!!!

When i was 15 or 16 i started smoking weed with my friends on the weekends. I lived in Atlanta until my sophmore year of highschool. My mom moved to Michigan the same year do to a divorce. I would say that the divorce encouraged me to smoke weed more because i was looking for a escape from all the bullshit that goes on. Well i wasn't exactly hanging with the right crowd and i thought if i moved to Michigan i would get in less trouble. So i moved my junior year and Michigan is where i call home.

Well after i got arrested for for possession of weed when i was 17 in michigan, shame on me for thinking i would get in less trouble in michigan. Did a year of probation, didnt violate, stayed clean and i moved on wit life. Until i started smoking weed on weekends again. then everyday.

4-7 years ago a guy i worked wit said hey man if u take these pks you will get alot of work done, of course i said no at first, but i finally gave in. I was one working motherfu*ker, I could out work anyone!!! I would take a handful before work, at wrk, at home, it didnt matter where i was, as long as i had painkillers. I wasn't picky i would take anything from vicodin, percs, norcos,etc when those werent around morphine worked as well as oxys. No one knew about my addiction but me. not even my girlfriend. So i carried alot of weight on my shoulders.

I hated being that type of person, so i wanted off, wd a shit ton of dif times, finally found suboxone on the street, thought it was gold to me. It changed who i was, i would take anything out on the streets, then i found suboxone and that was all i needed to make it thru the day! I probably took suboxone off and on illegally for 6-9months. One day my suboxone source says his dr is cutting him off, so i did the smart thing and tapered myself but i had to jump from 4-5mg. I must say that the wd from jumping cold turkey sucked. It wasnt fun by any means. I honestly made it 2-3 months of no opiates. I was still smoking weed, but to me that was a big step being opiate free that long and doing it on my own without my girlfriend knowing. It did get better day by day, but the work i do by the end of day, im beat, wore out!!! It sucked living with aches and pains, and frankly i was bored of being opiate free.

So after all that hard work of quiting pills and getting off suboxone, one day i was like fuck it and did a few oxy. then i was back doing same shit again. So After relapsing and falling back to my old ways.

I was just so exhausted from hiding my addiction for so long, no one knew about my addiction. it was a big secret. i finally spilled the beans to my girlfriend, and it was bad at first, but wow i should of told her sooner, she was so supportive.
long story short i got a counsoler a few weeks ago, got on suboxone legally from a dr, my first group meeting is this week. Yes i still smoke weed and my sub dr is well informed about this. Im by no means clean but i hope in in the right direction this time since my family actually knows


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 22, 2011 8:00 pm 
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Welcome to the forum...thanks for talking about your story. Everyone here understands what you've gone through, turning into someone you aren't due to drugs.

I'm glad you told your sub dr about smoking pot. I know that many addiction therapists understand harm reduction and that getting onto Sub is a great first step for you. I've never made my opinion of smoking weed a secret but you have told your Sub dr and the rest of how you deal with that is up to you and your Sub dr. You didn't say if you plan to quit smoking pot but you did say you weren't "clean" yet so I am assuming your plan is to stop smoking it. Personally I don't think addicts should be taking other mood altering drugs unless they are prescribed by a physician and their Sub dr is aware of all medications a patient is on...but that is only my opinion.

Good job getting onto Sub "legally" and I hope you have a good therapist to help you find the skills needed to deal with life without drugs. I've said this before, too, but stopping drugs is the first part, getting into a positive recovery is the rest of it...It's pretty hard to to alone. What I've learned that has helped me initially get 5 years clean and sober, and now 3 years has been to surround myself with people who have what I want in recovery, and to not rely on my own thinking without someone very trustworthy and much wiser than me to help bounce things off of. I have to distrust my own thinking because my own thinking gets me into trouble. That doesn't mean I can't think for myself, or make good decisions or any of that, it just means I really do need to get a reality check much of the time...and when I do that my life overall is a lot better.

Thanks again for sharing your story and let us know how things are going for you...

Good luck with getting stabilized on Sub.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Well my first group meeting was thursday. I know it was the first meeting, but im not sure i have much hope in that aspect! Out of the 8 ppl in my group i was the only one admitting i was a addict. I was the only one who chose to go to the meeting, everyone else was court ordered, so it almost felt like i was or am in the wrong class!!! Bad enuf that on our brake one guy was snorting speed in his car, i wondered wtf did i get myself into...

So im thinking either i need to talk to my counselor that i chose (not court ordered) and tell her hey i dont think this is for me cuz it feels like just the atmosphere everyone was dreding being there, they even said it, i know i wouldnt be happy if i was court ordered but shit.

Should i be in or attend na or ma if available in my area or should i stick it out for a few more weeks, i gotta go to 12 classes, its almost pointless.

I hope someone can make me see diffferent


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:06 pm 
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Hi #23 and welcome. Thanks for sharing your story. That sucks about the group meeting. I wouldn't want to attend something with that kind of atmosphere either. What kind of meeting was it? Was it through your doctor's office? If so, will they let you attend NA/AA, SMART, or other such groups instead of that one? Sometimes you just have to try different groups until you find the right one for you.

Good luck and let us know how it goes. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:08 pm 
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Or should i tell my counselor fuc* you and just get counseling thru my sub dr??


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:20 pm 
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Its basically a outpatient recovery center! So maybe im in the wrong place. I dont really think hearing about some guy and his 4 dui's helps me or makes a diff! Or ppl with B&e's telling me there story. Im trying to stay positive! I almost think like a one on one would be better then attending a class that has all court ordered ppl.

btw my counselor is a recovering alcholic and has been doing this for 3 years. I dont know if shes doing this class for her own good to help her stay clean so to speak, but i dunno, i guess im just ranting and a raving, sorry.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:28 pm 
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Oh rant and rave all you want! I wouldn't want to be in a group like that either. Is it mandatory? If so, I would just explain the environment and ask if you can attend a group of your choosing instead. It's worth asking.

I really hope you don't have to keep going there. I mean, who cares why they're there, but if they aren't serious and won't even talk about recovery/addiction, it could be a giant trigger for you and that could be dangerous. I honestly can't imagine an addiction/sub abuse program forcing you to be in such an environment.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:13 pm 
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My sub program and this are two seperate things. I choose to go to this outpatient recovery before a got on suboxone legally, kind of to show my family that i was serious because nobody is forcing me to do this, i called and did the registering on my own, so yes i can put a stop if i see fit. Like i said not court ordered.

I just really felt stupid explaining my situation to a bunch of alchaulics. One person actually spoke up and told me im trading one drug for another(suboxone), well that guy was out in his car on brake snorting rids, so i didnt let it bother me.

Nobody is making me go, my girlfriend even said if you dont want to go or if its not what you want then its my choice.
Im no drop out tho so maybe i will see how next thursday plays out before i say fuck it right??


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:58 pm 
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Hey addict#23,

I started attending NA meetings about a month ago and I love them. Right now, my favorite part is the people, that's just where I'm at in my recovery. I really enjoy talking to the people before the meeting, listening to people share in the meeting and then talking to more people after the meeting.

I don't even know what the hell the 12 steps are yet and right now, I don't care......the important thing is that my recovery is moving forward and it's getting stronger.

BTW, I'm sure I'll be learning more about the steps here soon though, I just got a sponsor a few nights ago and I'm sure he'll start me in that direction soon.

I'm gonna go ahead and tell you not to mention that your on Suboxone while at NA, some of those folks aren't to hot on the idea either, don't let it bother you though, that's their shit and you do not need to be taking on other peoples shit!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 9:01 am 
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Thanks guys for the replies, it means alot knowing there is ppl listeining to me.

Romeo- Yeah i didn't mind hearing ppls stories at my meeting, i guess i just didnt know what to expect.

I go see my sub dr today, and i will be sure to tell him everything that went on. My family dr tried a few weeks ago to put me on some kind of anti-depressent, she prescribed me paxil, which i did alot of research and did not take. I told my sub dr about my family dr griving me anti-depressents. What he said was something along these lines, I WOULD NEVER TAKE PAXIL OR GIVE PAXIL TO MY DOG. He said theres better stuff out there then paxil. He actually didn't want me taking anti-depressents, yes at times i think i might need them, but i know alot or some of my depression is just from being an addict

I just know what its like being addicted to things, and im not so sure if i want to be addicted to anti-depressents


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:20 pm 
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I have tried NA and AA over the last 15 years....I certainly like AA better than NA. I am not a hugger and all the touchy feeling stuff going on was not for me. I used to leave NA meetings wanting to use like crazy. I have even been to meetings where a dealer was offering percocets after the meeting.

I tried outpatient but most attendees were court ordered and just like you people were using in their car during breaks. One time a guy was offering vicodins at a meeting.

So I decided AA was where I was going to be. I went to alot of different meetings and finally in 2004 I went to treatment. After treatment I went to AA meetings sometimes as many as 4 a day. It cost me alot with my relationship with my wife and children. My boys use to beg me not to go to meetings because they wanted to spend time with me. I was working full time and traveling alot and feeling guilty about going to meetings. I am remember my ex wife saying when is it my turn to have all the problems and get the help I need.

What I found was no matter what meeting I went to that everyone believed AA comes first........not family.....not your job. Of course most of the people going didn't have a job, a car or were on disability. If you didn't beleive what they beleive you were shit. Eventually I spent so much time going to AA and seeing people whose lives were nothing but AA it cost me my marriage. I own the things I did in marriage. It took me a while to do that though.

I went and got involved in two relationships with women in AA and discovered that both ended in disaster. I personally do not believe two people in recovery can make it together especially in AA. This is just my personal opinon......I know there are some success stories out there.

For me I think one on one counseling with an addictionologist is the way for me to go. Granted for awhile I really liked going to AA and it was almost like a cult. There were so many phony people there as well.....I know a few that had no desire to be sober but were there for all the wrong reasons. When you know someone is a thief and steals drugs and is standing up to get a 3 year sober coin.......it just is not for me.

I know AA/NA has helped alot of people and they have cornered the market but it is not for me. No reason to hate me for it...you can even disagree. I support anyone that wants to attend meetings. It's just not for me.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:49 am 
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Addict #23,

You are experiencing something so new and it is challenging...and there are a lot of differing opinions. Something I've found, however, is that how I decide to look ata situation makes a huge difference in the outcome. We will ALWAYS find something to complain about, or to view negatively. Especially people who just stay in their own heads and think that nothing works, or blame AA, the people in AA who like to go, or blame the people who are court ordered into group treatment...it's part of our addict brains trying to get us to not do something healthy. It's really evident when someone is doing absolutely nothing positive in their lives or wants to change...

So, don't let others dictate what's best for you. It can be difficult to be around a bunch of court ordered people who do not either have a problem with alcohol or people who don't think they have a problem with drugs or alcohol. I know that many counselors struggle with trying to help a group like that...help the ones that want it and keep them feeling like they are moving forward while struggling with a lot of negativity from others.

It would be the same whether you go to AA, NA, SMART recovery, church, group, etc. There will always be someone you disagree with...and my point is to listen to the message, not the messenger. One on one therapy is great if you can afford it. However, even people there will begin to attack the therapist if they tend to the negative....so really it is up to you to get what you need wherever you go. I don't always love every AA meeting I go to...and when I am in that mode I have to really get out of myself and remember that some are sicker than others. On this forum, too! And that I need to really just listen to the message, find someone I trust that has what I want to bounce things off of....and how I do that is by watching and waiting, listening and seeing if people are walking what they talk. No one is perfect...but there are certainly a lot of people in meetings that really want to do things differently, that get out of their houses, out of their heads, do some work, help others...those are the people I look for at meetings and then I call them and talk to them, meet them for dinner or whatever. That's how I get better.

It's especially difficult at the beginning, when first sober. So many people blame AA for the break up of their marriages...so many people so easily go to meetings and sit back and judge others lives. or think that someone only lives for AA and has no other life. But who are we to judge that? We have our own problems. We should be focusing on our problems, not what others are doing. My first sponsor always said that to me, esp when I was complaining about what my husband was or wasn't doing and that was "focus on your own stuff and people around you will get better". I didn't get that for a while but eventually realized that my perspective changed when I just dealt with my own issues and left others to live their lives as they see fit. If I didn't like how they lived their life I didn't have to hang out with them. It's all about choice. We have choices.

I find it amusing when people blame AA for problems in their lives when the problems in their lives are about them. AA doesn't break up marriages. AA doesn't keep someone away from their children. There are meetings at all hours of the day and night in most towns. Even in the small town I lived in I could go to a meeting when my children were asleep, or when they were in school, or early in the morning. The thing that I think the above poster missed is that people serious in AA are saying that without our recovery we have nothing else. And I know for a fact that it is the truth. Without recovery we won't have a family. We won't have a job. Eventually we lose everything important to us. So, we can then just live as a dry drunk...doing nothing. Judging others, blaming others, projecting onto others. I think what is the hardest for addicts to do is to own their own behavior. We can always find a reason to not do something that is healthy or good for us because it is the harder road to take. It requires work, commitment, courage, honesty and willingness. Those things take time.

One of the things that keeps me moving forward and staying out of my head is when I'm helping other people. I remember talking to a pastor many years ago who asked me about my recovery. I had quit going to AA thinking i didn't need it any mroe but I was discontented, angry, judgmental...things I didn't like about myself but I was stuck in. When he found out what I was doing in my recovery (nothing) he laughed. It was hard to hear but he was right and he said "well, its hard to stay sober when all you think about is yourself". That stung but he was right and I was thankful that I was able to hear him and not just run out of his office flipping him off. When I get out of myself is when I am happiest.

So, Addict #23, you will know and recognize the people who have what you want by what they say, by their attitude, by how they live...you can recognize it on the forum and you can especially recognize it when you see those people because they have an aura of peace and happiness. I love being around those people....and it is worth it to me to listen to some that maybe are sicker than others in order to find my own peace and happiness by hearing what the healthy person has to say.

Lastly, I've seen many couples who are in recovery that work well. It is a risk because you have to have faith that the other will be really working a program. We are not perfect. But I do believe we do the best we can if we are open to hearing the difficult things about ourselves that need changing. And I think that 2 people can be in a r/s in recovery if they are BOTH working a program and staying out of the way of each other's recovery. If only one is working a program and the other is discontented and angry, vengeful, superior...than no, it doesn't work. But having a new r/s in early recovery is reallly not the priority anyway. The only point I'm saying is recovery takes work. It takes a leap of faith and courage. And addict #23, you are at least out there giving it a shot. Keep trying, don't give up. Your group may not be the right place for you but it also may be. You could be helping someone else in there who needs recovery but doesn't realize it yet. We live in denial as addicts...and as dry drunks....you could be there for a reason...sometimes the lessons are not about us...sometimes the lessons are for others..who knows. I've learned one thing and that is to quit asking why me. instead i just try to do the next right thing...and if the group ends up sucking you dry and making things more negative for you then you will know its time to try something else. But sometimes it just means sticking it out for a bit longer to make sure.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Ok to disagree
PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:21 am 
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It is clear AA is for you and that you disagree but I think you are out of line to judge me and my beliefs. What do you know about my marriage.......my experience with AA to call me a dry drunk. Your opinons and superior attitude is the exact reason why AA is not for me. I think you could have made your point without personally going out of the way to attack every point I made.

We all have varying opinons and experiences. This is not a one size fits all disease or solution. AA obviously has not worked for you like you say or perhaps you would not have so many different dates in your sobriety. Just an observation.

I hope we can continue to share our experiences and thoughts without going after a poster personally for their thoughts. Perhaps if I had only tried AA for a short time my thoughts could be ignored as wasn't committed. But I have been at it a long time with AA. Who knows perhaps I will choose to go back to AA again

I could argue each of your points with facts but I just don't have the time. I am all for whatever a person wants to do for their recovery. I am only sharing my experience........which is mine.

Jim


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:06 am 
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Hi addict23. Without getting into the AA discussion, I'm thinking maybe give the group a couple more weeks. It looks like right now there are two people serious about their recovery, you and the counselor. Go with the idea of supporting each other. Newcomers to recovery might either be still in denial or trying to look cool. Maybe one or two of them will decide to get honest. If it continues to be negative over time, then by all means go ahead and quit. But at least by then you can say you gave it a shot. Addicts tend to say f*ck it too easily, and it's a huge stumbling block to recovery (believe me, I'm the perfect example of it). Try to take what you need and leave the rest. If you can't, then move on to something else.
Best of luck to you,
Lilly


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:16 am 
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Jim, only you know what ruined your marriage. You said it was AA. AA can't do that. But, I was not talking about you. I was talking about my own experiences and my own recovery and that is how I phrase it every time i write about it....that it is my personal experience, take it or leave it.

That is something I also see and also see in myself...that we always think it is about us. We just aren't that important that everyone is either talking about us or thinking about us.

There is no need for you to start a war...my post was for addict #23 who is struggling with finding a good place to find a recovery program so they can grow and change.

Didn't you say yourself it is ok to disagree? I am only talking about my own experiences....I could say AA ruined my marriage because I went all the time, especially the first 3 years of my sobriety. But AA doesn't ruin things....we do our own ruining, by skewed thinking, by making mistakes, by having affairs, by neglecting, by not being able to own our parts and because others with whom we have contact also have their own perceptions and experiences.

That is the point and the miracle of AA to me...that it changes us from the inside out and for any addict to be able to quit using and to make positive changes is truly a miracle.

I've never said AA is the only way. i've only said it works for me. I spent 3 years going to meetings every day, then starting to chair them, to help in the women's jail, to do service work in my community in other ways...then I spent another year going once a week to meetings....then decided I no longer needed meetings. I stopped doing what worked FOR ME, which was to make sure that I took a look at my behavior daily, made amends when needed, and tried my best to change my thinking- which was def. needed....to be a positive influence, to stop sucking the life out of people around me by my addict energy and to give back instead of take take take. What did you say that you are doing in your recovery ReRaise? I missed that...and if it is nothing, then that, too, is a choice. I just believe that we can't do nothing. MY opinion. Stopping drugs by itself is difficult and deseves respect...but it is only a start. Again, my opinion. But if you look at the research you will see that adding therapy of some kind offers a much greater chance at continued recovery. How we want that recovery to be is up to us, however...do we want to remain the same? Whether that be unhappy, irritable, judgmental, superior and we used to numb painful feelings of all kinds, or do we want to have some relief from self imposed emotional jail? THAT is what motivates me to do something besides just not use. and yes, i did admit to taking benzos for three days in January. I came on the forum to get support, advice and help...and I gratefully got that. I'm not perfect and I do my best to not try to hide behind something that i'm not because what is the point of that? If I can't come here to a forum about opiate addiction and talk about my struggles, and then also talk about my solutions, what's the point? If someone doesn't like what I say that's ok....sometimes I'm wrong, sometimes I've hit too close to home, sometime's I've maybe actually helped. But I put it out there...as ugly as it is.

When I stopped going to meetings it was a slow 2 year decline before I relapsed. I relapsed because I let my guard down, I was in a difficult marriage going to marriage therapy, and I began to believe the old things again....that I could have a glass of wine, big deal, that one vicodin would take the edge off my pain of losing my son's fiance in a car accident, of my parents both gettting sick, of losing a marriage.. losing custody..the hard stuff that most of us have a hard time dealing with. This is just my experience and my belief. That for me AA works because it forces me to take a long hard look at MYSELF. Not others, myself. I still sometimes judge people, or make mistakes, or do stupid stuff. I'll never do it right all the time. But I'm not about to beat myself up over it over and over and over again. Nor will I allow anyone else to do that to me ever again, either. I look at it, own it if it is mine to own, and do the next thing, whatever that is.

Try not to take things too personally ReRaise. It isn't always about you. I've respected what you've said on the forum, I've backed you when I believed in what you've said...you didn't say anything then about my responses ....but now you decide that this is about you, that I know something about your life. Only you know your truths. I'm only expressing mine here. I put it out there only because I believe in helping each other. My story is full of awful behavior, things I used to have great shame over. But I've learned to forgive myself, and i've grown up a lot. Not perfect, but I'm trying.

Let's bring this back to the OP....who I commend for having the courage to get out there and make some positive changes, and come to the forum and ask questions, ask for advice...and as you see Addict #23 there will always be a differing of opinions and people in varying stages of addiction and recovery...the challenge is not letting that stuff get to you and to find your own answers in order to have the life you want and deserve.

Take Care!


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2011 11:32 am 
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Quote:
But if you look at the research you will see that adding therapy of some kind offers a much greater chance at continued recovery.


According to research provided by Dr. Junig, the largest study of its kind actually showed the opposite results - that counseling/therapy made no difference in relapse rates.

This is from Dr. J's blog:
Quote:
Over 600 people taking buprenorphine were followed in a recent study that you can read about here. The study showed more of the same– that patients taken off buprenorphine universally relapse. But the study showed something that I found interesting, but not all that surprising. You see, everyone always loves to say that buprenorphine is fine, but ‘only if there is counseling too.’ I always get a kick out of how many people think ‘counseling’ is a good idea– as long as it is for someone else! This study of people on buprenorphine compared a control group that had a quick med check each week during the study period, with a ‘counseling group’ that had two one-hour sessions per week throughout the period, talking about interpersonal issues, personality problems, trauma and stress in the patients’ lives, and other feel-good issues. Guess what? There was NO DIFFERENCE in relapse rates between the control group and the addicts that received intensive counseling. None. Nada. Zero.


This is the link to the study provided by the good doctor: http://suboxonetalkzone.com/Relapse.pdf.

If there is more research on the subject, I think it would be great if someone shared that with us.

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 Post subject: AA NA-therapy religen.
PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:27 am 
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as far as i am concerned. i have posted early on here about all this shit with practically no response.its all a religen made by man. take there advice or take your own. you better be on this forum at the right time. looks like this person was. sure got a lot of answers out of the same stufff? eventually were going to grow into something that we are comfortable enough wether we excepet it or not. no one is going to really come up with the true place that they really want to be any way? :roll:


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Posts: 10
Thanks for all the replies. I like opinions, and i've taken what alot of you have suggested.

Went To my sub Dr on Sat. Told him what was up with meeting. He suggested a new meeting on thursdays, a na group that has alot of suboxen background into the meeting. Meeting starts at 8pm so im gonna give that a shot and see if that is something i would like. My other meetings are on thursdays also from 530-730. I havent canceled yet, but im thinking i might go one more week and if its no better or doesnt do anything for me then i will pull the plug on that meeting. Its a short drive to the na meeting but i could make that as well and do 2 meetings on thursday.

My sub Dr also wrote me a script for welbutrin. He thinks alot of my problems are from my a-d-d, so the welbutrin is suppose to help the a-d-d and my anxiety and help my smoking cravings. Havent taken yet since im not sure if this is what i want to be taking.


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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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