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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:11 pm 
Moreover, I quit cold turkey and suffered no PAWS whatsoever. I really dont believe PAWS are real, since I felt so good after I quit and the acute withdrawals had subsided. I think your post is a testement against yourself. You sound cynical and angry and seem to really be struggling with your recovery. Ill end it there, but please dont call me out and compare me to other posters when this is my first day on this site.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 10:24 pm 
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@ sober jon- congrats at being off sub for 6 months. its great you are not experiencing PAWS. the statistics of people who stop suboxone and relapse within a year are pretty discouraging so I hope you have a good recovery plan in place like regular meetings of some kind, for example.

there are a bunch of people here who tapered down super low made it off and stayed off as well as cold turkey jumpers who are doing good, some for years. not everyone comes back and posts but many have and its inspiring.

this addiction thing isn't black and white. we're all different - many of us have trouble not abusing subs but the goal is to do our best. not everyone can stop opiates and sub is an great way to live your life without stealing, cheating and overdosing. harm reduction is so much better than dying and if you me and the next guy are "real addicts" chances are over 90% that we will not get better. thats why i say take whatever help you can get.

we try and be supportive of everyone here and we all need to be respectful of each others choices. im on a pretty successful taper so far over the past year from 8mg to .375mg. i don't need someone saying tapering is 100% impossible just as much as you don't need someone saying cold turkey is impossible. there are many "real addicts" or "true addicts" here that have learned to take their meds as prescribed too so please dont say thats impossible.

thanks and welcome to the forum.

-glen b


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:04 pm 
@glen bee. Thanks for the post and the support. I just wanted to say that I was not trying to discourage anyone who is currently tapering or considering tapering. I just wanted to point out some problems associated with tapering and why people who fail the taper method shouldnt be discouraged. If you've been tapering for a year, Id say thats a REALLY good sign that you are able to control your opiate use and you are probably ready to make the jump. Glen, I promise you, its really not that bad, and I didnt even taper. After the acute withdrawals, I felt born again, like everything was new. I really felt great and still do. As sure as the sky is blue, if you can taper for a year, you can quit subs completely....just sayin.

As for me, I dont go to NA meetings or see a counselor or anything, I just never felt that was for me.

I can understand why people dont come back here to post immediatly after they quit. Prior to my going cold turkey, I used to read posts on here and other message boards to get advice and get pumped up, although I never posted. However, after I quit, I just wanted to move on with my life. I didnt want to dwell on the past and really just wanted to put all of this stuff behind me, which worked quite well for me.

Im on here today only by chance, I happened to see this site in my browser history and clicked on it. After reading some posts I decided I would finally post. Now that my addiction is behind me, I am realizing that it can be nice in a unique way to share my experiences and if I can help one person with my advice then that would make me very happy. I live in a world where I never get to talk about my addiction, its not something you can talk about at work, Im single, and my family certainly does not want to hear about it. Its kind of nice to finally talk about something thats such a huge part of who I am.

Thanks for the respectful post Glen and good luck to you.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:15 pm 
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When did you complain about Suboxone? You began by saying you were 'addicted hardcore' to Suboxone, 'took more sub than I was RX'd, 'entire life revolved around taking them', 'couldn't imagine living without them', 'abused them for 4 years', 'never really believed I would be able to quit' - that doesn't sound like you were singing subs praises, now does it? You go on to say that all true addicts (as you call them) can not take Suboxone without abusing it, which is just a foolish uninformed statement on its face. You then say that since you quit Subooxone your life is 'immeasurably better' than it was when you were abusing it. Sounds like you were bitchin' to me!

I thought I was clear when I said I felt no withdrawal or PAWS 'after' I jumped. The discomfort mentioned was felt when decreasing doses during the taper. If you care to understand a bit more about it you can go to DiaryofaQuiter's liquid taper thread and read exactly what I said as I went through it 3 years ago. You also said in your last post that real addicts were NOT able to taper, now you're saying you're "not belittling anyone who IS able to taper." Well, which is it?

In what world do you live in that you say an individual can't build a tolerance up to and exceeding 800mgs of MS, Oxy and Fent? You don't really don't have a clue... now do you?

You say that most people would be better off 'sucking it up and going cold turkey' rather than tapering. I think you're dead wrong. Why would you even bother to take sub in the first place.... why not go cold turkey from your drug of choice? Because most people can't and don't last any reasonable amount of time before they give in. No, you really need time to work on straightening yourself out while you're taking Suboxone so you are prepared when you stop. Without some time to address the issues that brought you to where you're at, you can't expect any reasonable chance of longterm success.

You say you quit cold turkey and you felt no withdrawals or PAWS at all. Futhermore, you go on to say in your opinion PAWS doesn't exist. Are you a complete moron? Do you have any idea what effect opiods have on the chemistry of the human brain? The more I read, the more it sounds as though you're not an addict at all, but really someone who is pretending to be one. You say I sound as though I'm cynical and angry. Well, I already said I was cynical... and I certainly do get angry when I have to read through a lot of crap... anyone would. Don't call you out on your first day of posting? Why not? Does your first day entitle you to recite misinformation with impunity? This stuff is going to smell just as bad 6 months from now as ot does today, first day posting notwithstanding.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:33 pm 
@bronzebeta. Wow you need to chill man. The words of mine that you quoted and claimed to be complaints are not complaints in any way. I was merely stating facts about my experiences with subs (and Im sure most sub users would agree with those statements I made) to show how they were such an integral part of my life but yet I was still able to quit. Its not hopeless as the oringal poster was saying she felt, even if it seems like its impossible to quit.

Why not go cold turkey off your drug of choice instead of taking subs? For the exact reasons you mentioned after you said that. "you really need time to work on straightening yourself out while you're taking Suboxone so you are prepared when you stop. Without some time to address the issues that brought you to where you're at, you can't expect any reasonable chance of longterm success". Those are the advantages of getting on subs, you have time to address the issues that brought you to where your at.

Also, how is it belittling anyone by saying theyre not a real addict? I wish I wasnt a real addict, that is much more of a compliment than a disrespect. To avoid future confusion, instead of "real addict" I probably should have said "some addicts", I was trying to make a point that there are different levels of addiction. Addiction is more of a spectrum, some have literally no control over themselves around drugs and even end up becoming homeless and sacrificing everything for the drug, whereas other people are able to control their drug use so well that they can maintain their lives for a quite a while, maybe even indefiinatly, while using drugs. Thats all I was tryin to say, not tryin to strip u or anyone else of their real addict status...?

As far as your claims that Im not an addict, I dont know what to tell u on that one, Im not here to convince u or anyone that Im an addict (never thought I would be saying these words lol) I am here to share my story and help people if I can.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:37 pm 
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SoberJon - Man, you really just suck at this. Why are you now telling glen bee that after the acute withdrawals you felt born again, like everything was new. You just said in your last post that you experienced NO withdrawal or PAWS when you went cold turkey. Please find another website to play your sick little games.

Edited by Amy-Work In Progress to remove name calling.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:41 pm 
bronzebeta, you know, and everyone else who can read knows, that I never said i did not experience withdrawals. I was quite clear that I withdrawaled after quitting cold turkey. Your making up stuff in order to discredit me, my advice to you would be get a life, and if your goal is to get me to stop posting on this site, then you won. Good job.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:50 pm 
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I like the line "now that my addiction is behind me..." the most. How long have you been off suboxone? Do you currently use any othrer mood or mind altering substances? Liquid solid or gas? I'm just wanting to know personally. Just because of some resentments I have towards my addiction. I just dont get how you can can just put down suboxone with no practiced recovery tools after opiod addiction and say its all better now forever. Just curious. Its not a matter of just trying hard enough and just wanting to put it behind you. It doesn't work that way. Idk.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 11:57 pm 
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SoberJon - Then I've accomplished what I set out to do. Don't PM me again using any of your other posting names. We went though this last year and as I said back then... please get yourself some help.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:04 am 
Well I said I was done posting but moviemaker had a good question and I dont want to leave him hanging. I currently do not use any other mood or mind altering substances. I smoked weed on and off for a month or two after I quit subs, but it seemed to be making it difficult for me to sleep, and was giving me dark circles under my eyes, so I stopped.

I never said I didnt have any tools to overcome my addiction. I have a bachelors degree in psychology and during my time as a psych major I took a class on addictive behaviors. Also, for the first year I was on subs I saw a counselor, bc my sub dr told me it was required, so I learned a little bit about my addiction there as well.

Its not a matter of just trying hard enough, although that is certainly a major factor, but for me my breakthrough was the realization that I was much better off without the subs. One example was when I noticed when I would lift weights on subs, I would be sore for 6 days or so after a workout, but after I quit subs, I would only be sore for 2, plus I would see more muscle gains when working out without the subs. Another example was I felt happier and was able to take more pleasure in the little things in life that I do not recall finding that pleasurable while on subs. I just remember feeling scammed after I quit subs and the withdrawals were over, I felt really mentally sounds, less anxious, just better overall, like a new person, and I felt like I should have quit subs sooner. Even though I admit subs saved me and if I wasnt on subs for 4 years then maybe the difference between being on subs and being sober would not have been as pronounced.

I will say that you shouldnt underestimate will power, you can will many good things into your life. Mind over matter, if you dont mind, then it doesnt matter.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 12:19 am 
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I think that this conversation has gotten a little too heated for it to continue tonight. Name calling is unacceptable and labeling people is not helpful. I believe there is a way for each person to get their point across without disrespecting the other person. But even if one or the other of you can't respect the other person, you need to keep it civil on this forum.

What works best here is for members to present their own stories and their own conclusions without imposing their beliefs onto everyone else. Implying that someone is or isn't a "real" addict because of your own set of standards, or calling people liars because they didn't experience withdrawal the same way you did rubs people the wrong way.

Please let it go, both of you, because I think you've both gotten your points across and then some.

Amy

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2013 1:03 am 
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Thanks for that. I was just curious how you did it. Honest. Didn't mean to rub you the wrong way or anything.


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