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 Post subject: 4th day off
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:55 am 
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Im now on my 4 day after dropping 0.25mg buprenophine. Luckily in the country i live we have Temgesic - a 0.20 mg Buprenophine tab. So i didnt have to liquid tap or use or scalpel etc. Went from 8x20 mg methadone last summer down to 20 mg - switched to 8mg bupprenophine, which wasnt enough the first 2 days - i think i was around 10mg before my crawings was covered. Tapped down since june.
1 day: more cravings then withdrawels - binary thinking; take or not, mind bendt around that.
2 day: W/d kicked in - diarhea, felt like everything i ate instantly turned to fluid and ran through the system.
3 day: slept 7 hours - what a bliss, woke up with anxiety and overall very little urge to do anything - including staying in bed.
4 day: 3 hours sleep. Wonder how i will feel today.

Some overall feelings during the detox: Exhausted - can fall down in my bed thinking arhhh, rest, but then after 2-3minutes my body starts doing its trick - mainly legs offcourse. Funny thing - on methadone i would always sleep on my back, now i only sleep on my front. Showers gives 20-30 mins relief, which can be enough to fall asleep - with abit of luck. Just talked with family over phone and was surprised how trembling my voice was.

Thx for this forum.


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 Post subject: good luck
PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:50 am 
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Good luck to you. I envy you being able to get to such a low dose before stopping, but I know even a tiny bit is hard to get off of. It's been about 76hrs for me so far and I went jumped from about 1.5mg-2mg. I'm not feeling that horrible anxiety that usually accompanies my WD, and I think that has to do with the celexa and neorontin I'm taking. My symptoms are manageable and if I didn't have to work and I could just lay in bed I'd be okay. But knowing that I am supposed to go into and deal with people all night is freaking me out a little. again good luck, I'm sure you can do it


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Yea, i wonder why Temgesic isnt more widespread - they come in 0.20 and 0.40 mg, and im told that 0.40 is aproximately what you give older ppl when they have pains. They arent ment to be splitted up, but there is a big letter L carved into them so it easy to clip them in half with a scissor or somehing - i can imagine the practical trouble with splitting a 2mg into 20 or even 40 pieces - the liquid method sounds good though. I dropped off from about 0.25 maybe 0.30, not sure if neural system was fully adjusted.

Anyways it is late on my 4th day now - the symptoms are anxiety, restlessness; im looking foreward to be able to lay down on the couch and actually feel relaxed through a whole movie. The positives are less jumpy legs and that i actually have been sleeping 2 times today - first around 5 hours and then one and half hour here at the evening.
Showers is a remarkable status q - while standing in the hot water i didnt feel any w/d at all at any point in theese 4 days.


Edit: I really admire that ppl are capeable of maintaining a job while detoxing, there seems to be alot of ppl here who have that extra pressure. I guess im blessed with the scandinavian wellfare system.
Allso thx for the encouraging words.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:46 am 
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Wow, congratulations on how far you've made it. I'm extremely jealous of you right now. And thank you for posting your progress, it helps people like me more than you would think.

Hang in there. Sounds like you are doing just fine though. You seem strong-willed and courageous.

Showers always helped me when I was detoxing off of opiates. The only way I would have half a shot at getting even 30min of sleep when in withdrawal, would be to drag 8 towels into my bathtub. Set up a make-shift bed & pillow and turn the shower on really hot! I would lay there and sometimes be able to pass out. It was the only relief. Luckily I lived in an apartment complex where hot water never ran out, literally.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:39 pm 
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Thx alot for the nice words:) - yea showers seems to be the big thing in detox. Kinda makes you wonder how much and hour long hot jacuzi would work, not many addicts have access to those though. Another thing giving relief is excersize as much as possible - it is almost better then the post bath relaxation.

The update now is: i actually had a small relapse - i curse my luck.
The 5th day was actually really ok - no jumpy legs and feeling like the worst physical symptoms was over.
Then at around 24 i started to get headache. It was getting worse hour for hour. I took 8 headachepills - two different kind during 2-6 am, but it just got worse and worse. Finally i was actually so desparate that i took 0.10 mg bupe - which helped me sleep.
I didnt felt the urge to take the bupe because of w/d at all - i just wanted the headache to go. It sound abit stupid that you can beat the third and four day w/d`s and then get beat by a headache when you actually are almost out of the woods. But there you go.
Now im a little scared if it will kickstart the detox. It is about 12 hours since i took th 0.10mg and im feeling totaly fine right now - but im abit worried about tomorrow.

So i guess a advice before detox could be: be carefull about continually pains - toothache for example. And dont do things which will cause headaches - relax the shoulders while sitting at computer, and dont watch to much tv and dont smoke to many cigarettes.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:46 am 
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Don't beat yourself up over that little relapse. It happens to all of us. You are no different than anyone else. Let it go and stick to your plan. Thank you for sharing your experience here, it will be very helpful for people who are considering getting off suboxone. Hang in there and let us know how you're doing, please. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:19 am 
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The relapse didnt seem to really do all that harm. Its about 36 hours later now - the dose was only 0.10mg, so i think it is mostly out of the system. From what ive read buprenophine has a halftime in tissue off around 3-6 hours - the problem is that the drug is "fat loving" and binds to fat, and then get recykled into the system. If i understand it correctly.
Mentally it had some impact though - i went from what would have been 7 days off - to less than two days. I allso fear getting such a severe headache again.
To sum up:
I dropped off 0.25-0.30 mg. The worst day was the third day and the 5th day would prolly have been the turn around if i havent got headache which led to small relapse. I talked to a guy who stopped on 0.40 mg and he said "4 days of diarhea", so i guess to those who wants to get off - tap down to around 0.40 and take a week off.
Mentally - it will most likely take longer to be up to pair. I sleep fairly well now, but when i wake up i dont feel like getting up. Im allso slightly frightened of simple things like going out and buy grocerys - i feel very exposed. But tbh i allso somewhat had that feeling when i was tapering down. The whole reward/endophine metabolism will hopefully correct it self.

Thx for the kind replys. It is great with this forum because i honestly dont trust doctors or the nurses on the center - they always seems to waaaaay underestimate w/d symptoms. "you wont get w/d on that dose " etc etc.
I prefere hearing from other ppls personal experiences.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:58 am 
I wouldn't consider taking 0.1mg a "relapse" - it was just part of your process of coming off completely. So don't psych yourself out by saying you went from 7 days off to 2 days off. The reality is that the bupe that built up in your system over time is leaving the body. I doubt 0.1mg had much of an effect on that. Just hang in there and keep going.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:06 pm 
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I very much agree with Lilly and Junkie and was actually thinking the things they were saying before I read them. I would only add that personally, I would never consider taking Suboxone a "relapse". To me, a relapse is going back to full agonist opiates for which we do not have a prescription and legitimate need. Taking Suboxone, (with a prescription and legitimate need) to me, is just not a relapse. All you did is extend your taper a little bit longer. Am I rationalizing? Perhaps. Who knows? I just don't think it's worth worrying about. Suboxone is our treatment - not our drug of choice.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:32 pm 
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No, that's a good point, Donh, I don't think it's "rationalizing" at all.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:40 pm 
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It is about 36 hours now since my "relapse" and my w/d havent become worse so i think you guys is right - i still think i would advice against it since i could become a slide. Next time i get headache then what? Cant sleep, it dosnt harm to take a tiny bit? It didnt resett the detox though, which was my main worry and you guys`replys was very comforting. :)

I havent any cravings at all currently - i was out eating this evening with a friend, i was fairly relaxed and comfortable and kinda enjoyed it. This is a biggie for me, because i usually only would socialize if i had "prepared" myself with extra methadone.


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 Post subject: Keep it up!
PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:09 pm 
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Sounds like your doing great. Like others said, don't let that tiny dose bother you at all. That was small enough to fit into your detox without resetting anything. You most likely still had trace amount of bupe in your system and the .1mg wasn't enough to raise levels to any significant amount.

Your doing it, day by day. Every hour is another hour of repair, rejuvenation, potential happiness and freedom. Keep your eye on the prize, and continually remind yourself of how far you've come and where you are going. I'm so happy for you, and so jealous (which is compliment). I can't wait until I can be making posts similar to yours!

Please continue to keep us updated. It's inspiring.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:30 pm 
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Thx for your words Bubble:) I hope i can keep it up (knock on wood). I dont know your dose or history - but if you are going to quit it i can humbly give two advice ( which is from completely personal reference and may or may not help since we all are different).
Tap to around 0.40-0.30mg and drop.
Put a 5th day mark in you calendar and aim for that day.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:15 am 
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I'm all ears when it comes to advice. Could you explain it a little clearer, or differently, I'm having trouble understanding the instructions/meaning of your post.

What does "Tap" mean? Is that like "Drop" or "Reduce"?

And what do you mean about the calendar date? Should I try to get down to .4-.3 in 5 days? That seems fast, considering I'm on 3mg right now... Or do you mean, after I've jumped (dropped) that I should expect to be through withdrawal by the 5th day?

Thanks for any clarity.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:22 am 
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Yea - tap, tapping - im from denmark and here we say "nedtrappe" ( reduce), but seeing other ppl use the word tapper or tapping i thought that would be the correct word. :D
So my personal advice - and emphasize on personal is:
Reduce to around 0.30-0.40mg. I dont say lower simply because for me i lost patience while reducing. I first planned with my doctor to be out of sulbu mid august, and 2 months later i was still reducing and i started to fear that it would just drag out untill i would give up and decide to stay on some low dosis ( which most likely then would go up again). I simply dont trust myself when it comes to drugs:)
If you do have the patience though it might ease the withdrawels to go lower, but tbh for me the 0.30mg`ish drop was manageable.
If you ask about how i reduced my dosis - i would drop as much as possible every week. Which was around 0.10-0.20 mg from 2mg and down.


The 5 day mark in the calendar was ment as a goal when you let go off the last dose. When i dropped the last subutex i got around 4 day of physical withdrawel symptoms. The 5th day was where i felt improvement.
As said, i think my w/d where manageable, i did get som sleep here and there, mostly the symptoms was restless body, diarhea and the feeling that the time went by really slow. The 5th day i felt better - so thats what you could aim for. Allso try not to stress yourself to much about the w/d - i did that myself - but to put in perspective, the small relapse i had wasnt caused by w/d, it was caused by a simply, but very painfull headache.
Hope it was abit more clear:)

8 day update: Slept around 5-6 hours. Body feels ok. Still feel tired, but the upside is that im pretty confident that i can just go take a nap now without turning and moving around in the bed.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:03 pm 
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Thank you for the advice filur. It's comforting to hear that coming off suboxone doesn't have to be complete and total hell. I can't imagine it being much worse then when I came off methadone 5 years ago.

Congratulations on 8 days! You have a whole week under your belt, that's just awesome man! Keep it up. Sounds like your symptoms are minor/manageable, and they should continue to improve with time. Hang in there, and keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:00 pm 
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Congrats Filur, you have started the 'process' of detox. Remember it is a process and you may have some ups and downs, but little by little you will feel better and better. It sounds like you did a real good taper and therefore will have minimized your detox severity and duration. Congrats again, I know how hard it is to come off of sub, I am coming up on 5 months clean and I am very happy with my decision to quit subs. Keep it up Filur!!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:23 pm 
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I have tryed to come of methadone as well - after one week reduction cure lol ( they told me i would be fine). On the second day after dropping the last i escaped the center, had the worst train ride ever and felt like 1 year older when i finally had gotten to a dealer. After that i have completely dropped any thought of comming off methadone directly. It has been my drug of preference though - living like a Vegetable, take the tabs - back to the couch.
If you managed to go through a whole methadone detox i would say that you should be able to do a buppe detox as well:)

The 8th day has been a little be meh. I think the feelings is relative - at the third or 4 day you just want peace in you legs and a few hours sleep. Then you get to the point where your legs are fine and you can sleep for 5 hours - but then you complain about being restless and exhausted:)

This forums have defenately helped me btw - i dont trust the doctors and nurses at my center because they suggested a 2mg drop off.

Edit: thx for your words Romeo. I hope you maybe will stick around for a advice or two if things go as planned - about using NA and starting to socialize again:)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:36 pm 
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Your exactly right when you think back to day 3 about wanting sleep, then day 4, if my legs would only stop jumping...we will always find something to 'complain' about, as addicts we have convinced ourselves that it is never alright to feel crappy so we reach for our doc, but if you think about it you are getting better. That's your body attempting to heal itself. The process of detox always takes longer than we want and makes us feel crappier than we want. You have to remember how good you are doing though. Look how far you have come...you're doing it!! I am proud of you and how far you have come.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:41 pm 
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i certainly hope to stick around for a long while, reading and posting in these forums sure seems to help me and if helps others as well, then that's just awesome! please feel free to ask me any question you want whenever you feel like it.


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