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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:14 am 
Hey! Sorry, guys/gals…I felt like I had to delete my posts; I had someone approach me that had been on this website. I’m not really comfortable with just anyone in my life going on here and reading about me. I think I shared a little too much and lost a little anonymity.


Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:01 pm 
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Payton wrote:
I've been on Suboxone for approx 4 months (due to opiate dependance/abuse). I started at 16 mg and stayed at that dose for 2 months. Went down to 12 mgs for a month. 8 mgs for another month. Was going to go down to 4 mgs and did take 4 mgs for 2 days but decided at that point to just stop. So basically Sunday the 6th was my last 8 mg, followed by this Mon and Tues 4 mg each day (always 1st thing in the morning). Today is Friday, so starting my 3rd day with no Suboxone after 4 months and pretty much jumping from 8 mgs and I've yet to feel any withdrawal really. I've been a little tired. I've slept thru every night just fine, no panic attacks, no restless leg, or anything.

Can someone please tell me if I'm a sitting duck waiting for the worst to come or if it hasn't started yet I may not get withdrawals? I've searched and searched the internet and from what I read I could be in the clear or it can hit today or up to day 5???

Anyhow, I'll try to keep you all posted on anything that progresses.

Also, the reason I took myself off is because I was having major depression, anxiety, and suicidal ideation since starting the suboxone. Not saying it made me that way but something wasn't jiving with the chemical make up in my brain.

Any input regarding the withdrawals would be appreciated! Thank you all, Payton


If you are into your 3rd day with no withdrawls you may be one of the very few [less than 1% extremely fortunate] who doesn't feel the withdrawls. Most all people feel something negative within 36-48 hrs. My guess is that you aren't out of the woods yet. If you still feel nothing negative after 7-10 days... get down on your knees and thank god for this blessing. In fact you might want to consider already doing that.

Congratulations on your efforts and decision... keep us posted on your progress


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:57 pm 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 2:39 pm 
Payton - As much as I hate to be a downer here, I have to say I cannot imagine that you are out of the woods yet. Since you experienced severe withdrawal when you cold turkeyed opiates in the past, I would only think you're going to have similar withdrawals coming off Suboxone. I don't think I've ever read or heard of anyone stopping Sub at that high of a dose without going through a pretty rough time and unfortunately, for a pretty long time.
I hope I am wrong and I do believe that mental attitude plays a strong role in how bad things are perceived, so by all means keep a positive attitude and expect the best, not the worst!
If you search through the forum you'll find several posts about different people's experiences in stopping Suboxone. Personally, I haven't been through it yet so I have no first-hand insight for you. It is pretty common to hear that stopping at doses higher than 1mg or so can be difficult, and that stopping at a dose of 8mg/day is tantamount to hell on earth. The symptoms seem to be akin to withdrawing from any other opiate with the major difference being the onset of withdrawal is delayed (up to 5-7 days) and the acute phase lasts longer (as much as a month.)
When/if my time comes to discontinue Sub, I'll plan a long taper reducing my dose as low as I can and skipping days between doses until completely off. This seems to be the best way to avoid experiencing severe withdrawal and I've heard stories (my doctor included) of people doing it this way and having NO withdrawal symptoms whatsoever.
I'm glad you have another Rx for Sub in case you run into problems. Since you've made the decision to stop it I hope you are successful and have no problems. But if you do....fill the Rx and take a little more time to wean yourself down. The last thing you want to to do is run a great risk of relapse, or worse yet get into a worsening of the depression or anxiety and suicidal thoughts you've been feeling. I'm glad you are seeing a therapist to help you and I wish you the best of luck as you go forward. Please keep posting about your progress. Experiences like yours are so helpful to us all and there are many of us here who will try to help you in any way possible.


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 Post subject: hey
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:21 pm 
Payton,
Wow, you are really much braver than I am!! LOL. So, I also hate to tell you, but I suspect you just still have enough Sub in your bloodstream to keep you from going into withdrawal. Buprenorphine can have a half-life of up to 72 hours (and really under some conditions and in some individuals even longer). But you have to also recognize that it can take up to 5 half-lives for a drug to leave your system - a half-life doesn't necesarilly mean all of the drug will be gone in twice that amount of time. I guess you could be one of the lucky few...but i really doubt it.
I think you should stay on 4 mg's for a few days and then start to taper. Discuss the depression/suicide issues w/ your therapist. However, the MOST important thing is, if you really, truly feel suicidal, drop everything and GO STRAIGHT TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM. Make sure to bring your Sub and all your meds. Tell them you're suicidal. Believe me, I've done it before, there's no shame in seeking help. There is no temporary problem in your life worth using a permanent solution.
I really wish you well, man. Keep us posted.
James


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 10:57 am 
I'm glad you're still doing well! And glad to hear you have a spiritual life that you are actively engaging in. I do believe in faith and the power of prayer. If you do get into some rough physical symptoms, that is what is going to get you through. I'm sorry you had such awful pshychological symptoms on Suboxone. I think that is pretty unusual as most of us actually feel somewhat of a lift in our mood, especially those with a history of depression. Just goes to show once again how different we all are made and how differently each individual will react to medications. I saw that so much in my practice as a nurse - what worked great for one person didn't work at all for the next sometimes.
Whatever happens, hang tough and keep believing for things to get better for you. Please continue to post your experiences.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:05 am 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:04 pm 
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AMEN to your thoughts and beliefs on Christ!!

Glad to hear things are still going well for you... I don't believe for a second that dropping off at a higher dose like 8mg can be better than tapering down and quitting. By the same thought... I don't believe tapering down to 2mg and jumping off is much different than quitting at 8mg. No evidence... just my own personal thoughts. I believe in order for a taper to have the desired effect you need to go slow and jump off at no more than .50mg and lower is even better.

I was on methadone for 14 yrs and switched to Subs about 1.5 yrs ago. I started a taper from 12mg subs a few mos ago and am currently at .40mg without no real withdrawls so far. I'm sure about one thing and that is the worst is yet to come. So I plan on using the liquid method and dropping .10mg [100mcg] every 2-3 wks. The really strange thing about subs is I really feel no different now than when I was taking 12mg. I'm sure this is because of the long drawn out slow taper.

Just to give you an idea of the potency of subs... medical dr's in Europe prescribe .30-.40mg of subs for acute pain to non addicts. So even though I'm on a relativlely low dose... I'm getting a similar amount as pain patients.

My advice would be if the withdrawls start to come on... try taking 2mg or less and start a slow taper from there.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:15 pm 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Keep going
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:13 pm 
Hang in there...
I really think you might find that Sub withdrawal is milder than from Oxy's....just try not to psych yourself out. Give it a few more days. Keep us posted.
JD


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 11:48 pm 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:53 am 
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First off... you are way ahead of the game just by getting to day six.

A good number of people who try to quit from 8mg don't make it as far as you. I personally think you are could be seeing the worst of it and in a few more days might even see some improvement in the physical part. The best thing you have going for you is the 4 month duration of your subs use. That is a relatively short period.

Even though your brain receptors have developed a relationship with Bupe... they haven't married each other yet. So your not going thru a divorce... just breaking off a dysfunctional relationship.

Hang in there... you are going to make it!!!

Ethan


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:36 pm 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Hang In...
PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:23 pm 
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Hello, I havent said anything to ya yet but I want to after reading the thread today again. I too jumped from large amount because of doctor issues a few months back (16mg per day for bout 4 months-ish), but it wasnt obviously what I wanted so did go back few days later but...

I didnt notice a thing phyiscal untill late day 3. Day 4 is when I really noticed it creeping up. I had to wait to day 6 because that was when my scheduled appointment was for new doctor. But it did keep on getting a lil worse day by day. Defiently nothing to not goto work or not be able to function. The mental thing before anything phyiscal symptoms started was what I think made everything worse. I just "knew" that any second I would get that nasty dope sick. I bet if I had not been thinking that way it would not have been as bad....but believe me, I am not downplaying what you are feeling.

I do know that I couldnt do anything but lie in fetal position and barely make it to bathroom for 3 or 4 REALLY NASTY days coming off of the quick acting full agoinist strong narcotics cold turkey....the many of times I had done it. But probably a total of 8-11 days total acute w/d's (not on anything extended release, that was always a bit longer...) I really dont thing at any point, even if jumped from high amount, could suboxone w/d's cause this.....I do think that everything is more drawn out with the suboxone tho.

Either way I want to say you sound like you are taking it very well and that is totally awesome!!! Seriously! If you can do it, I really hope you the best and maybe you will be spared any more pain then what you have gone through. If I can help any way please gimme a shout!!! I wish you all the best and take care.

_________________
"The past is finished. There is nothing to be gained by going over it. Whatever it gave us in the experiences it brought us was something we had to know."----Rebecca Beard

"Have no fear of perfection - you'll never reach it." ---Salvador Dali


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:22 am 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:26 am 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:16 am 
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Hi Payton,

I've been following your story and wanted to say welcome and offer my support.

Regarding the insomnia, I use Trazodone (aka desyrel). Have you heard of it? It's an older atypical anti-depressant, but it's my understanding that it's used just as often for insomnia as it is for depression (if not more). It works really well for me; in fact I prefer it over typical sleeping pills like Ambien or Lunesta.

Just wanted to throw that out there. Keep up the good work!

Melissa


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:58 pm 
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Last edited by Payton on Mon Jan 11, 2010 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:36 pm 
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I think when they say it will take weeks to take effect they're referring to the anti-depressant properties. Think of the sleep aspect as a side effect, which would be immediate; no need to build it up in your system.

With regard to Trazodone, I noticed the first few mornings on it I did wake up a bit groggy, but that went away within a matter of days.

Good luck.

MEL


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