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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:00 pm 
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Hi all,
I have come and gone from visiting this forum, and I respect many of your opinions. That being said, I have a question.

OK, tthree weeks ago I was lowered to 3 MG but have actually only been taking half of a 4mg strip every morning. I used to dose twice daily and let me tell you - what a mistake I was making! I have been doing in the am for some weeks now and I feel so much more alive! Not sleepy all day, much more energy and motivation. Which leads into my question.... Is it normal to feel this GREAT once you get down around two mgs? I don't wanna take it so far as to say I feel euphoric, bc it's not that. It's just that I feel really, really GOOD! I am laughing, my self confidence has finally started to be noticeable to others (like my bf), and I just feel so different! It really is amazing. But, like all else I fear it will come to an end. Once I get lower in my taper is this gonna go away? Lord, I hope not. It has taken me so very long to feel alive, to feel like MYSELF, that I fear it ever changing. Someone, please tell me it actually gets better from here, not worse like my mind every so often will nudge me and whisper. Noooooo! Not when I Finally feel like I got my mojo back so to speak. Lol

What do u say, folks??

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:23 pm 
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Hi Amy, I remember feeling pretty much the same way at 2 mg/day.

Not going to lie to you, the taper started to get tough once I got down to 1.5 mg/day (I'm now at .15 mg/day and getting ready to get off Subs).

But that's just me, this drug affects different people in different ways, and a lot of it seems to depend on how long you used opiates, and how long you've been on subs. I was on heroin (plus cocaine), then methadone, for almost 15 years in total, so tapering down to nothing has been pretty intense. Not all bad, but not an experience I'm going to forget anytime soon.

Keep in mind that once you get off Subs and go through the detox process, you can get to an even more real feeling of joy and freedom, which won't depend on doctors, pharmacies and little white pills (or strips).

HTH.

-- JI

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 2:38 pm 
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Hi and welcome. I agree with ji in regard to this drug affecting people in different ways. It sounds like you are simply stable at that dose, and it is low enough to where you are starting to experience what it's like to be "you" again. As far as tapering, unfortunately, it's not all laughter and feeling good. However, it really isn't that bad, and for me the symptoms would come in waves. But in between I started to notice that I was much more aware and alert, and experiencing true emotions again; both good and bad. The hardest part for me was getting down to .5mg, but even then, it wasn't that bad. If time is not an issue, or getting the subs, I would just stick with a slow taper and fully stabilize at each dose before dropping again. All the posts I have read of people who have jumped with very little withdrawals have done a slow taper and went at their own pace. If tapering/jumping off subs were all that easy, then we would all do it without any problems! Your receptors are full which is making you feel good, but when you start taking away those man-made endorphines, your brain needs to heal and basically re-learn how to start producing them again.

Best of luck to you! Keep us posted...


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Good for you Amy! I actually felt my best at 1 mg and was planning on going lower but a health problem stopped that from happening. Now for some reason I'm finding it hard to even think of tapering again. Don't know why, as I didn't have any ill effects from doing it the first time with the exception of going from 2 mg's down to 1 mg. Then I felt the w/d's coming on. A person here (Hatmaker) told me not to reduce so much. Looking at it later I realized it was a 50% drop. Duh! So I went back to 2 mg's for a few days, then down to 1.50 for a day, back to 2, and so on for about a week and then I was fine at 1.5 mg's. A month later I dropped to 1 mg and all was fine.

For me, tapering was very easy to do. I guess everyone's metabolism is built differently because I've read here about people not being able to go lower than 4 mg's, or 6, etc.

Enjoy your new found life. Stay where you are or taper down some more. It's totally up to you.

Congratulations! I love reading posts like yours.

rule

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:12 pm 
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'Much more aware and alert' is a good way of putting it, I definitely feel this way too.

If I start to feel grief, and try to ignore or fight it, that doesn't work for me, and I end up feeling worse. If I just give in to however I happen to feel in the moment, the grief will pass, and i'll end up with exactly that feeling of awareness and alertness.

-- JI

mama79 wrote:
Hi and welcome. I agree with ji in regard to this drug affecting people in different ways. It sounds like you are simply stable at that dose, and it is low enough to where you are starting to experience what it's like to be "you" again. As far as tapering, unfortunately, it's not all laughter and feeling good. However, it really isn't that bad, and for me the symptoms would come in waves. But in between I started to notice that I was much more aware and alert, and experiencing true emotions again; both good and bad. The hardest part for me was getting down to .5mg, but even then, it wasn't that bad. If time is not an issue, or getting the subs, I would just stick with a slow taper and fully stabilize at each dose before dropping again. All the posts I have read of people who have jumped with very little withdrawals have done a slow taper and went at their own pace. If tapering/jumping off subs were all that easy, then we would all do it without any problems! Your receptors are full which is making you feel good, but when you start taking away those man-made endorphines, your brain needs to heal and basically re-learn how to start producing them again.

Best of luck to you! Keep us posted...

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-- Rumi, Sufi poet and teacher


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 1:39 am 
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johnny_ikon wrote:
'Much more aware and alert' is a good way of putting it, I definitely feel this way too.

If I start to feel grief, and try to ignore or fight it, that doesn't work for me, and I end up feeling worse. If I just give in to however I happen to feel in the moment, the grief will pass, and i'll end up with exactly that feeling of awareness and alertness.

-- JI

mama79 wrote:
Hi and welcome. I agree with ji in regard to this drug affecting people in different ways. It sounds like you are simply stable at that dose, and it is low enough to where you are starting to experience what it's like to be "you" again. As far as tapering, unfortunately, it's not all laughter and feeling good. However, it really isn't that bad, and for me the symptoms would come in waves. But in between I started to notice that I was much more aware and alert, and experiencing true emotions again; both good and bad. The hardest part for me was getting down to .5mg, but even then, it wasn't that bad. If time is not an issue, or getting the subs, I would just stick with a slow taper and fully stabilize at each dose before dropping again. All the posts I have read of people who have jumped with very little withdrawals have done a slow taper and went at their own pace. If tapering/jumping off subs were all that easy, then we would all do it without any problems! Your receptors are full which is making you feel good, but when you start taking away those man-made endorphines, your brain needs to heal and basically re-learn how to start producing them again.

Best of luck to you! Keep us posted...


Yes, I just described taking my 2mg dose as an attitude adjustment. I just feel a little better about the world after I dose. Does that make sense?

Amy

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:08 pm 
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Amy14921978 wrote:
Hi all,
I have come and gone from visiting this forum, and I respect many of your opinions. That being said, I have a question.

OK, tthree weeks ago I was lowered to 3 MG but have actually only been taking half of a 4mg strip every morning. I used to dose twice daily and let me tell you - what a mistake I was making! I have been doing in the am for some weeks now and I feel so much more alive! Not sleepy all day, much more energy and motivation. Which leads into my question.... Is it normal to feel this GREAT once you get down around two mgs? I don't wanna take it so far as to say I feel euphoric, bc it's not that. It's just that I feel really, really GOOD! I am laughing, my self confidence has finally started to be noticeable to others (like my bf), and I just feel so different! It really is amazing. But, like all else I fear it will come to an end. Once I get lower in my taper is this gonna go away? Lord, I hope not. It has taken me so very long to feel alive, to feel like MYSELF, that I fear it ever changing. Someone, please tell me it actually gets better from here, not worse like my mind every so often will nudge me and whisper. Noooooo! Not when I Finally feel like I got my mojo back so to speak. Lol

What do u say, folks??


I think it's fantastic every time I hear of experiences like yours! It's yet another piece of anecdotal evidence to advocate the truly profound and wonderful effects buprenorphine can have on addiction compared to the ineffective ideals of group therapy that the world just can't seem to let go of.

Now, as to what could be causing these changes in your mood and creating a greater sense of well-being or a sense of your natural self, there's a few theories that make equal physiological sense...

At the ceiling of 4 mg, your receptors are at 100% occupancy and no other opioids, neither exogenous (drugs) or endogenous (endorphins), will add to your subjective experience and effect for as long as that ceiling is reached. However, when you drop below the ceiling, and even further so at 2 mg or less, you will have a significant number of receptors not being occupied by buprenorphine that are available for activation by other compounds. Assuming you're only sticking to your buprenoprhine regimen and not taking other opioid agonists (which it seems you are), then there's a definite potential for your natural endorphins to begin activating those available receptors, which you probably have not experienced for a WHILE since you began using drugs! This would account for those "natural" feelings of well-being and true self and should be a wonderful and rewarding part of recovery when you can finally start feeling your body's natural "high's" and emotions (considering the disappearance of these natural highs and inability for your body to produce them for so long while on other drugs is a huge motivator for staying on drugs). This is the first theory and is just as likely as the next.

The second theory also has to do with leaving more opioid receptors available for activation, but not by the body's natural endorphins. When buprenorphine undergoes metabolism by the liver, it is converted into a metabolite called "norbuprenorphine", which instead of being a partial agonist like buprenorphine with a limited ability for producing a high or feeling of euphoria, it's a full agonist no different than morphine or oxycodone; it's potent too! Once buprenorphine is metabolized into norbuprenorphine and you're at a dose of buprenorphine well below the ceiling effect of 100% receptor occupancy, then the norbuprenorphine will begin binding to those available receptors, causing a more full agonist-like, euphoric and joyful experience, much different to what buprenorphine has been causing for the time you've been on it. This concept has not been well studied scientifically, but clinically and anecdotally, it is a VERY common occurrence for people to feel stronger effects from buprenorphine once they get to the 1 - 2 mg range which is enough to convince me that there's certainly something going on here.

I realize these are both theories and I don't claim either one of them to 100% be the case but they are the most likely. I also realize that it may be less encouraging to think that it's a more potent opioid causing your mood lifts than your body itself so the way I see it, you should just enjoy this new found happiness as much as you can and think of it as a consequence of lowering your dose and allowing your body to make you happy on it's own through endorphins to keep you encouraged to continue doing so in the future.

Good luck!
Taylor


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