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 Post subject: 1st time for subs.
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:29 pm 
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For the last 3 year I have been slowing taking more and more Lortabs a day. Im at about 10 to 12 10mg per day. Yesterday I went for about 24 hr without anything and was about as sick as I have ever been. I got 3 and half 8mg suboxone strips. I took a 1//4 (maybe 2mg) of one and in about an hr or so I felt a little better. I waited about 2 hours after the 1st dose and took half of the other half. (maybe .5 mg) and then about 5 hours later I took the last of that. So total I have taken would be 4 mg. This was all yesterday. It has been about 15 or so hours since I have taken anything and I dont feel bad at all. How should I take the rest of what I have. As you can tell I have done alot of reading on how to take these, but now Im kinda lost as to what to do now. Should I wait until I feel bad again, or do I need to take a certain amount at a certain time??

Like said for the past year strong a bad day would be me taking only 4 to 6 10mg tabs or perks, a good day would have been 10 to 14. I ready to kick....... This is the 1st time I have been without for more than 24 hours and not been deathly sick.

any advice would be great.

This is the 1st time I have told anyone about my addiction, I have read it helps to talk about it for the mental aspect.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 6:47 pm 
Since your habit is pretty small, I would stay low on the Subs like you are doing.

If you plan on going back to using when you get your new script, it's especially important to stay low. Sub is gonna raise your tolly, as 1mg of Sub = ~60 mg morphine, so take the least amount of Sub you need not to feel sick. After a few days of taking Sub, you're gonna have to wait 3 days probably before you can even feel the hydro again..Subs will block hydros for days, even at a low dose.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:05 pm 
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When you say this sentence: "Like said for the past year strong a bad day would be me taking only 4 to 6 10mg tabs or perks, a good day would have been 10 to 14." If you were not an addict you would be saying on a good day I only took 4 to 6 and on a bad day I took 10 to 14, but see thats how we addicts think we consider its a bad day when we were only able to take a few and a good day when we could take alot. I bet you did not even realize how that sounded non addicts would say wow on a bad day I had to take a bunch and thank god on a good day I had to take only a few. As the saying goes "THERE'S YOUR SIGN"

This disease is a very progressive disease. And after we finally start realizing we gave this disease we can do two things. One we can try to arrest the disease from the first awakening/realization or we can keep flirting with disaster and toy back and forth with the idea that it's better to be high then be sober. Trust me though there will be many consequences/prices to pay for the being high and like the majority of us addicts eventually you lose your ass and the being sick part will actually be the cake walk compared to the other consequences.

If you took 100 pill addicts and you ask them how it all began with them all hundred would say they started out taking a few more than prescribed or a few more than was needed or a few more than they should have and in time it escalated into as many as they could get their hands on daily was never enough. To answer your question "Im kinda lost as to what to do now. Should I wait until I feel bad again, or do I need to take a certain amount at a certain time??" Well, my answer would be, I don't know you, but I would like to say stop now. Don't do anymore pills nor anymore suboxone. Get through this hump and under no circumstance take another pill outside of having to a few times in life for toothaches or backaches etc...and try tylenol first. Never take anymore than prescribed and outsmart this disease and be there to catch any little curve ball it tries to throw at you. But I must say in all honesty you would be a rare few if you followed those suggestions.
Good Luck and even if you do or even if you don't take the advice set out in this post, keep visiting this forum and talking about it all as yes there is some healing effects in talking about it with others that know exactly where you are coming from.

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Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 7:25 pm 
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Finallyachance is absolutely right in my opinion.....

IF you could nip this right now, and 'get over the worst' it would definitely be in your best interest. not to mention
any1 thats close to you.

If you cant tho, ,, nobody will blame you....I couldnt thats for sure....

but if I had someone there, that had been down the path before hand, telling me all I have to look forward to was
A MOUNTAIN of debt,
a mouthfull of rotten teeth,
and the fact that itl take years for anyone to honestly belive me at face value agian,,,
Im not saying I WOULD have been able to stop
BUT it would have been nice to have the CHANCE......

I never saw it coming.....I didnt even really think I had a problem until I went thru a script of 90 norco 10s in a week....
I was shocked, but just got more. I didnt 'pause' I just thought,,, I wonder if im addicted to these?
and the thought was gone.....

BUt 4 years later,,,, I got $4,000 from a car accident,,,, I spent the whole amount on oxy, dilluad, morphine and whatever else I could get ahold of.....
that was the moment,,, I said,, It took 3 weeks to spend 4 grand,,,,, when will I EVER have enough pills?????
and I knew I was never gonna be able to stop,,, becuase I would never have enough.

I dont blame you for trying the sub.
you might be able to use it just for a few days to get 'over' the w/d symptoms.
if you do, thats when you would have to be VERY careful to not touch anything again.
Iknow its scary to think about it. Iknow its easier to take the fkn pills.
but read some more stories on here,
and decide your self........
while you can

I dont blame you either way,,,, I dont judge you on any decision you make. Im just trying to tell you what I would have liked to have a chance to hear at one point.

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:31 pm 
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finallyachance wrote:
When you say this sentence: "Like said for the past year strong a bad day would be me taking only 4 to 6 10mg tabs or perks, a good day would have been 10 to 14." If you were not an addict you would be saying on a good day I only took 4 to 6 and on a bad day I took 10 to 14, but see thats how we addicts think we consider its a bad day when we were only able to take a few and a good day when we could take alot. I bet you did not even realize how that sounded non addicts would say wow on a bad day I had to take a bunch and thank god on a good day I had to take only a few. As the saying goes "THERE'S YOUR SIGN"



Your right, but I was using the term "good" and "bad" as to how many I was taking in a day. But I see what your saying. I know Im an addict. I know whis much. I just want to try to use these subs to keep W/D sicknesss down. I think Im strong minded, only the days ahead will tell the truth. I can get pills anytime anyday, but I dont want them. I want to stop. I really dont want to stop one for another tho.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:49 pm 
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you should totally go for it then,
and just use the subs for a few days, to a week til it passes. and try not to 'hit the rut'
agian.

just take as little as you can to feel the w/d subside,, and wait until you feel the w/d
you can tell if your really in w/d or its a mind trick by the size of your pupils
at least thats how my doc instructed me to do it.

when you look in the mirror in moderate light,,,, if ttheyre large, your in withdrawl

hope that helps.
and best of luck.

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Great to hear
PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:49 pm 
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QUOTE "I just want to try to use these subs to keep W/D sicknesss down. I think Im strong minded, only the days ahead will tell the truth. I can get pills anytime anyday, but I dont want them. I want to stop. I really dont want to stop one for another tho."

Great I am so glad to hear you say all that. I do not know anything about suboxone and how much how often will help you get thru this few days of withdrawals you are having so I would do as amber said and do as little as you can and take a little each time you feel the Withdrawals emerge

I am not sure about bupe/suboxone but if you were using methadone to get over the hump you would then have to slowly taper down off the methadone so as not to experience withdrawals from what you were taking to get rid of the original withdrawals.

HEY AMBER?????? Can you answer the above sentence?

Good Luck my friend. Get over this hump and try to steer clear opiates. Keep reading post on this site. They can be very enlightening and very entertaining.

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Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:21 am 
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I had a friend (well my husbands friend)
who was in a bad car accident, and was trying to taper off morphine......
he wasnt Addicted, but only DEpendent.....
so the doc,, perscribed 3 8mg suboxone. to 'get him thru' the worst of w/d

and FOR HIM it worked....
but he took, I think about 2mg at a time, and only dosed the 2mg, about 3 times TOTAL over 7 days.

thats actually where I got my very 1st sub from,,, fyi.....had been thinking about it, but didnt wana spend the money unless, 'i knew it would help' so I took it when I was sick, and w/d GONE....I still used for a few months tho after that,, wasnt serious yet....

anyways,,,, back on subject,
for HIM he was trying to just alleviate physical w/d.....he didnt even LIKE the morphine.....(I dont get it)
Like I said, he broke the pills up in 4 pieces, and used a fourth when he felt he couldnt take it anymore...

I hope this helps,,,,,
any more questions let me know......
I'll do my best

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 1:24 am 
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one last thing I forgot to mention
he said he never felt anything bad,,, when he didnt take more subs.

said that 7th day when he woke up he hadnt felt that good since BEFORE the accident.

Just wanted to add that......and he hasnt had any opiates that I know of since, but it never
was his thing anyway.....hes ahuge pothead.. after the wreck,, he had a steel rod
inserted down his spine,,,, thats why he was on morphine.

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 12:51 pm 
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Well this is the start of day 3. I dont feel bad at all, but I dont feel great. Donnt get me wrong, Im not haing any w/d that I can tell. Last night I took a very small amount (1.0 mg) as I felt like the w/d were coming. Im really in shock about how I feel, Its almost to good to be true. I would have never thought it could be like this, I must have inducted perfectly. I have tried to tapper before and it didnt work, I felt like shit the whole time. And times when I was not able to get pills I would take tramadol to keep the W/D away, but they even made me feel sick. Im going to not take anything today and night and see how that goes. I want to really push my self into the start of W/d before I take any more. Just these 3 days have made a big difference and the money I have saved is unreal. Its been along time since I had most money this long after payday. Im used to droping 400.00 every friday.

Thanks for all the help, I will do my best to keep everyone posted


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 3:56 pm 
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I have mentioned it in several posts that I am on Methadone for opiate addiction, but I have had a few encounters with suboxone and each times was short term in a detox setting prescribed by a detox doctor. Both my encounters were well over ten or so years ago and it was subutex at that time. It works extremely well short term to alleviate opiate withdrawals. The first time was for xanax and opiate withdrawals and although it took the sickness (diarrhea and nausea) totally away, I still suffered the withdrawals and kidney shut down. I was in detox forty days at that time as I was too sick from the benzo symptoms to go into any treatment (medically would not release me) they did allow me to stay at the detox which is usually shorter term than forty days. I know I was not on the subutex any more than about 14 days or so though. The second time was in South Florida (both times were in Florida detoxes) and this was where and when my mom had to go get the subutex from a Walgreens and paid over $900.00 dollars for 21 of 2 mgs (I think was the mg) also subutex. Like I said this was over ten or so years ago one of the times was actually more like 15 or so years ago. Both times were out of the ordinary as neither facility gave subutex or offered subutex routine medications and I was just in a detox almost three years ago herein NC where they did not nor would they even consider it if I paid for it myself. I don't understand why as the detox off opiates is a terrible one as we all know and suboxone and/or subutex would be very effective in a detox setting. Especially, if the client, like me of course, is hyper-sensitive to withdrawals and totally bed-ridden being higher maintenance for any caregiver. I go through that part for usually at least ten or so days. There are people who have and/or handle withdrawals harder than others I have heard from several of my doctors and/or nurses. With that being a given I wonder why they do not offer suboxone short term in detox settings?
Well at least you kind of figured it out for yourself. Those two times being so long ago, I can’t remember if they titrated me off the subutex or what. I do remember though the second time, I left the detox after a couple of weeks and went into a inpatient 90 day program in Deland, Florida, and when I got there they expected me to jump right in because unlike most of the clients there I had been afforded the luxury of detox, but after a few days of me being a hard to motivate client, the doctor there came to the conclusion that I was probably suffering some withdrawals from the subutex and I was given some room to adapt a bit slower to all the classes and phase work one had to do. So you might note a little bit of withdrawals in the end. Good luck.

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Wishing you the best in love and life. Finallyachance.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:30 pm 
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finallyachance is right, about possible w/d at the end, but it should be VERY MILD compared to what
you have been thru before.....should feel like the flu at the most...as long as you keep your intake low

GOOD JOB by the way!!!!!! Keep it up, and you'll have this whipped.

Its huge, deciding 'you've had enough' especially since you havent really 'graduated'
to the really, really bad stuff yet. Im not by any means undermining your w/d or addiction.
but just imagine using harder stuff the way you did the lortab, and coming off that.....

Anyways, I think your plan sounds good, dont be afraid to post how you feel, or whats on your mind,
sometimes it can just help alot to 'unload' those feelings.

I really hope you can do this how your planning too
and the money? yea, I know.....it was a trigger for the longest time for me, anytime I got paid I just immediately thought about how much dope I could get, and how 'good of a deal' I could score for having more money...
At the end, I was spending about $150-$200 every day........
I sold for other people, and hooked up other people and stole and everything else you could imagine.

but now, its not so much of a trigger, and when I was in the begining, I was giving my grandma most of my paycheck, and having her give me 50bux at a time or so for gas and cigs. just so I wouldnt do something dumb.
but now its mostly subsided. it felt so good to buy my son xmas presents, and my other family members. it had been years since they got more than a dvd or something with all the plastic ripped off of it....lol
and I still had money left over,,,not alot but the point is, when I was using I never even had 5 bucks!!
so when you have 50, you feel RICH lol

Happy New year!! hope you have a good day
keep us posted

_________________
anyone can give up,
its the easiest thing in the world to do, but to
hold it together, when everyone would understand if you fell apart
That's TRUE STRENGTH
http://almostoneyearclean.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Get help
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 8:45 pm 
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Stop everything you are doing and get help. Find a sub doctor and stop playing doctor. I know it sounds harsh or rude butits the truth..sub saved my life and I wish someone told me about it 3 years ago


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 8:57 pm 
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amber4.14.11 wrote:
Finallyachance is absolutely right in my opinion.....

IF you could nip this right now, and 'get over the worst' it would definitely be in your best interest. not to mention
any1 thats close to you.

If you cant tho, ,, nobody will blame you....I couldnt thats for sure....

but if I had someone there, that had been down the path before hand, telling me all I have to look forward to was
A MOUNTAIN of debt,
a mouthfull of rotten teeth,
and the fact that itl take years for anyone to honestly belive me at face value agian,,,
Im not saying I WOULD have been able to stop
BUT it would have been nice to have the CHANCE......

I never saw it coming.....I didnt even really think I had a problem until I went thru a script of 90 norco 10s in a week....
I was shocked, but just got more. I didnt 'pause' I just thought,,, I wonder if im addicted to these?
and the thought was gone.....

BUt 4 years later,,,, I got $4,000 from a car accident,,,, I spent the whole amount on oxy, dilluad, morphine and whatever else I could get ahold of.....
that was the moment,,, I said,, It took 3 weeks to spend 4 grand,,,,, when will I EVER have enough pills?????
and I knew I was never gonna be able to stop,,, becuase I would never have enough.

I dont blame you for trying the sub.
you might be able to use it just for a few days to get 'over' the w/d symptoms.
if you do, thats when you would have to be VERY careful to not touch anything again.
Iknow its scary to think about it. Iknow its easier to take the fkn pills.
but read some more stories on here,
and decide your self........
while you can

I dont blame you either way,,,, I dont judge you on any decision you make. Im just trying to tell you what I would have liked to have a chance to hear at one point.



I wish I could explain to you how much reading that meant to me. I went to therapy for the first time today after realizing I was never going to stop on my own. The way you said that was just beautiful and I feel like I completely understand where you are coming from. I'm at that point where I will never have enough pills. I'm so tired of the run around and always being out because no matter how many pills I would buy, they would be gone in a couple days and I would have to do it all again.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:18 pm 
finallyachance wrote:
I don't understand why as the detox off opiates is a terrible one as we all know and suboxone and/or subutex would be very effective in a detox setting.


Some facilities simply 'don't believe in it,' crazy as that may sound to you and I. Some facilities subscribe to a complete abstince-based/12-step model when it comes to the treatment of opioid addiction. Different facilities have different philosophies regarding opioid replacement therapies, but we've gotta face it, replacement therapies are controversial and some people honestly believe that addicts deserve to suffer. Trust me, there ARE people working in the field of addiction who believe that buprenorphine and methadone are 'WORSE than heroin', for whatever irrational reason.

Also, doctors need to have special waivers to be able to prescribe buprenorphine products for the treatment of addiction in the capacities of both maintenance and titration; this rule applies to Dr's in detox centers and treatment facilities as well as general practice. In detox facilities there are typically 'standing orders,' for certain medications that are used as detox protocols for specific chemical withdrawal syndromes that every client has 'automatically' available to them without seeing a Dr. first, but MD's ultimately still have to sign off on the meds/prescribe them to individual clients. Also, facilities themselves have to be licensed to administer opioids for maintenance/titration, with buprenorphine (suboxone/subutex), all it takes is that DATA waiver, a Dr who does not already have 100 patients under his care at the time, and a facility who 'believes in' using replacement opioids, but methadone requires more specific licensure and is thus a little more difficult to find in a detox facility or treatment center since DATA 2000 and the advent of Suboxone/Subutex.

-Travis


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