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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:44 pm 
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Hi everyone. Just joined and this is my first post. A little over 4 months ago I cold turkeyed 16mg after one year. I was kept on this dose for pain management. I was an athlete attempting to go full pro when tragidy struck. I fell down 40 feet of steep concrete attempting to preform a stunt. I was prescribed oxycodone for two weeks. Still in serious pain I told the doctor i didnt want to get addicted again. I was 5 years clean off heroin and oxy. Knew nothing about suboxone exept it was a detox drug that you couldnt get high on. The doctor said suboxone wasnt addictive, it would treat pain, and while I would be dependent I could easily taper off anytime. The horror begins. 3 months in I was eating once a day, had horrific stomache pain, and was becoming an emotionless zombie. Didnt get back on my skateboard, no gym, no relationship with God. I was numb. I began to research suboxone and was traumatized by what I read. No longitudinal, long term studies, have been done! Only clinical trials for detox. I began to take vitamins, go for walks, jacuzi etc. 6 months in i was popping docusate sodium, laxative, like tic tacs. On top of expensive top shelf fiber blends 3 times a day. I began to bleed internally. I was eating once a day, dry heaving every morning, emotionally dead, horrific stomache pain, and my toilet was FULL of blood everytime I went. So began the first of multiple hospital visits. Apparently my lower intestine and rectum were tearing. I was prescribed laxatives and sent home. This whole time I was asking doctor to lower dose, that I read of a ceiling effect with suboxone. No theraputic value above 8mg, europe rarely gos over 4mg!! He said were treating pain. Youll be in pain if we lower. I made drastic diet changes. More vegetables than a hippy conmune. By month 9 and ten i began to throw up blood once a week, dry heave hot and sweating every morning, bowl movement twice a week, glass in stomache feeling, emotionally numb, blood out of other end. Hospitalized a second time. I dropped to 8mg. Not fun. Went back to 16. At one year I went cold turkey. Told the doctor to go fuck himself. Having read up on sub detox i figured one month ill be good. So very, very wrong. I didnt eat for 9 days, withdrawal peaked from day 10 to 14. Stayed peaked for 35 days solid. Noticed MINOR improvement on day 36. Withdrawal ran strong until day 70, from day 70 to 90 I began to experience a tolerable state between 5 and 9pm. Days 90 tbrough 120 i would get crippled unable to move with withdrawal between 11am and 5pm like clockwork. I found this timing strange. I thought paws hit at random. I saw a doctor for full bloodwork. Stage 4, last stage, adrenal fatigue which also induced hypothyroidism. My adrenal glands are SHOT from suffering so intensiley for so long. My thyroid is also shot. Whats worse? No cure. No thyroid medication since its being caused by adrenal failure.The doctor said all I can do is exercise and NO caffiene. Right. Exercise with adrenal fatigue, hypothyroidism, AND post acute withdrawal with no caffiene. Fuck it, I have been. Days 121 to current I have not allowed myself to go down during the day. I fight. I am starting to improve, slowly. However I am still really, really fucked off. BUT, it is getting better. I have hope for the first time in 4 months that I will recover to some degree after a year probably two or so. Anyways thank you for reading. You guys have my love and support. PLEASE love and support me. And if your on suboxone. TAPER SLOWLY TO UNDER 1MG AND QUIT AFTER 30 DAYS OF BEING BELOW 1MG AT LEAST. I am not posting this to hate on subs. Sub is a wonderfully useful medication when used and tapered correctly. I chose to detox AMA. Let this serve as an example of what NOT to do. Glad to officially be apart of suboxforum. -adrenalinejunkie-


Last edited by Adrenalinejunkie89 on Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:30 pm 
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Hi AJ, Mind if I call you AJ? All I can say right now is WOW! Thank GOD Suboxone doesn't affect everyone like it did you or I would probably be dead via suicide by now. I got on Suboxone, stayed on about 6 months and weaned off one time. When I realized what it felt like not to have an opiate in my system, (I had been on pain pills for 26 years straight before Suboxone) I had no choice but to get back on Suboxone. Well get back on Suboxone or start using methadone or other pain pills again. So I chose Suboxone. I had trouble going to the bathroom, #2 when I first got on Subs so I started drinking a nutritious smoothie with a scoop of superfood/ greens twice a day. I wont say I go like clockwork but about 4 times a week, which I can deal with. But anyways this thread isn't about me it's about you and I must say bless your heart. My hats off to you. Boy have you been through it! Great job getting your diet health like you did. LOL Eating veggies like a hippie or something to that effect, lol. And exercising. I'm pretty sure that was wonderful for your brain while it was in this reparative stage. While we were in our addiction and while were on Suboxone we are saturating out pain receptors with a manmade substance and when we come off that substance, it takes our body and brain a little while to start making the natural substance that saturates these pain receptors. exercise helps. I hope I explained that somewhat correctly, but that is the way I understand it. Well I just wanted to show you love like you requested and everyone else here will show you love and support you in your decision to quit and Stay off Suboxone as long as you don't bash Suboxone. We all have different experiences with Suboxone and we appreciate your input. Hun, take care of yourself. Sincerely, Angie


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 1:40 pm 
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Thank you! My theory of why it effected me like it did was I was on oxy for two weeks, not years. As afformentioned I believe it to me a miracle drug for detox of full agonists. As far as long term maintenance I see if the first longitudinal studies will be out in 2018. My father graduated yale 32 years ago and knows everyone in the addiction field.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:39 pm 
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So Adrenaline Junkie,

From what you are writing it sounds like you have some misperceptions about Opioid Use Disorder, and unfortunately you are spreading your ideas around as if they are facts. I'm quoting your post here:

"Hi everyone. Just joined and this is my first post. A little over 4 months ago I cold turkeyed 16mg after one year. I was kept on this dose for pain management. I was an athlete attempting to go full pro when tragidy struck. I fell down 40 feet of steep concrete attempting to preform a stunt. I was prescribed oxycodone for two weeks. Still in serious pain I told the doctor i didnt want to get addicted again. I was 5 years clean off heroin and oxy."

Addiction doesn't go away. It's not like strep throat that goes away after it heals. Addiction is defined as a chronic, relapsing brain disease that is characterized by compulsive drug seeking and use, despite harmful consequences. It is considered a brain disease because drugs change the brain; they change its structure and how it works. (NIDA) You say that you didn't want to get addicted again, when really any lapses would be a continuation of your already present addiction.

The reason I'm pressing this point, AJ, is because you have made other comments that make me think you don't understand the longevity and progressive nature of addiction. You told one of our members that getting back onto buprenorphine was a dangerous decision when she was feeling very unstable off of it. You are throwing out statements like, "16 mg is WAY too high!" and "Its all personal choice. If you cant function without opiates then take the opiate my friend." You have given people a taper schedule that you, yourself, didn't follow, as if you are an expert on tapering. The point is, that tapering off suboxone doesn't mean your addiction is cured. It's where the real hard work begins.

"Knew nothing about suboxone exept it was a detox drug that you couldnt get high on. The doctor said suboxone wasnt addictive, it would treat pain, and while I would be dependent I could easily taper off anytime. The horror begins. 3 months in I was eating once a day, had horrific stomache pain, and was becoming an emotionless zombie. Didnt get back on my skateboard, no gym, no relationship with God. I was numb."

You have said numerous times that the reason you can make statements with such conviction is that your father graduated from Yale 32 years ago and he knows all the important people in the addiction field. I mean no disrespect to your father when I wonder how you could have started on suboxone ignorant of what you were facing, when your dad knows everything about addiction. That doesn't make sense to me. Either your dad knows the ins and outs of suboxone or he doesn't. Either he would have given you the best counsel from knowing the drug, which means that you wouldn't have been blind-sided, or he didn't tell you what to expect because that's not his area of study or practice.

What I'm trying to say, AJ, is that I don't think you should be making blanket statements about what is true and what isn't for anyone but yourself. You seem like an intelligent guy and you have some experience tucked under your belt, so it certainly makes sense for you to tell the forum about your personal experience with suboxone. You have also been supportive and encouraging toward people here who are struggling. That's all good stuff. By all means, if you have a helpful article to link to our forum, please do. It's best to have direct evidence on hand before stating things as facts. I love to research as well and I do share some articles from time to time.

And if your dad ever wanted to chime in on the forum he is more than welcome! The psychiatrist who created this forum has had hundreds if not thousands of suboxone patients over the years and his authority on the subject matter definitely guides us as moderators and members. Unfortunately, not everything is cut and dried, and as you said, we are waiting for some longitudinal studies to come out.

Please keep the positive, encouraging posts coming. If you could lay off the statements that seem authoritative that would be a big help.

Amy

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 1:15 pm 
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My father and I didnt talk for years until recently. Regardless Ill be more mindful of my posts. But to clear the air, I am very familiar with the disease of addiction. Everything you said Im well aquainted with. If you ever wish to discuss neurobiology, the pharmacological make up of bupenorphine, or the emerging data associated with long term use of suboxone I love intellectualy stimulating conversation. For the latter Ill refer to my father and request tangible evidence to educate all of us. Im personally currently fascinated by studying more in depth the Mu Kappa and Delta.PS 16mg is way to high. Your life is a personal choice. These are facts. There is no theraputic value above 8mg. Theres marginally a rather minimal difference between 4 and 8mg. If you want proof Ill attempt to find pictures of bupe and occupation of opiate receptors at 2mg 4mg 8mg and 12mg. They didnt even bother to scan 16mg its so high above the point of the saturation of opiate receptor sites. Lastly regarding if you cant stop opiates take an opiate. This is a fact. In hindsite I should have elaborated a partial agonist is a safer opiod addiction. Bupenorphine and oxycodone are both derived from thebaine, codeine methyl enor ether, an alkoloid from the Afgan poppy. People get offended when I say suboxone is not sobriety. Is it a chance at a better life yes. Does it save lives. Countless. Does it give addicts a chance at recovering. Absolutely. But just because its a partial agonist doesnt mean its not an opiod. Heroin and bupe come from the same plant. Oxy and bupe come from the same alkaloid of that same plant. Oxy and bupe really hit society in 2002, interesting. Disease and cure came out around the same time. Heroin overdoses have gone up 16 fold since US occupation of Afghanistan, the worlds heroin supplier in late 2001 into you guessed it, 2002. Theres more on that fun subject but ill post my theories regarding thr opiod epidemic in another thread. Much love, aj


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 10:48 pm 
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I appreciate your response, AJ. I wasn't actually disagreeing that 8mg might be the ceiling for most people. I was just trying to get across that, especially when you're brand new, you can't really be an authority on this type of information unless you're backing it up with research. It doesn't come across well.

I do disagree that being on buprenorphine is not sobriety. To me, the importance of the medication is not what it is derived from, but how it affects behavioral change in the addict. The week before induction the addict is in active addiction with all that goes along with it. They might still be lying, cheating, stealing, selling themselves, plus they are obsessively focused on their next high and pill count.

After induction the addict feels like a normal person. She is not feeling desperate, not obsessing over pills, not having to lie, cheat, and steal. Not needing to give up their sense of morality over an opioid. The change was incredibly dramatic for me. One day I was a pillhead and the next day I was free of that feeling.

Again, to me it is the change in mindset and behaviors that count as sobriety, not that buprenorphine has an opioid component. Buprenorphine essentially puts active addiction into remission, giving the addict the time and space to get their lives back together. Time to reform trust with friends and family members, time to fix a career, time to shore up finances, et. Most importantly it allows the addict to do recovery work without the desperate feeling that they could relapse at any time.

Through my graduate program I am learning much about neuroscience, the pharmacodynamics and pharmacokinetics of buprenorphine and other drugs. I find it fascinating as well, and I feel fortunate to have access to my university's library. It's a great resource.

I'm interested in the research you've found on saturation levels at 8mg and upward. I hope you can find them and link them.

Thanks,

Amy

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:52 pm 
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I appreciate your response. We will just agree to disagree on the sobriety thing. You sound educated, thats wonderful. I hope to learn from you. The argument I was making about bupenorphine not sobriety is this. I stated the same things you did but didnt elaborate as well as you. Specifically the positive impacts on an addicts life with bupe, they are vast and wonderful. The point I was making was that all of the wonderful things about not , having to steal, lie, commit crimes, and not crave opiods is because....bupenorphine is an opiod. Is there much lower risk of abuse due to naloxone. Yes. Is there much lower risk of tolerance, overdose and use of other opiods. Being a partial agonist capping off dopamine response at the ceiling, ie saturation occupying all the receptor sites, yes. However I cannot advocate for it being sobriety since one is replacing an opiod for an opiod. I cannot advocate for its use as a maintenance drug due to the fact there is a lack of research and longitudinal studies. I theorize, I repeat, simply theorize that people are being left on suboxone for maintenance and at astoundingly high doses,myself formerly included, to be pharmas lab rats. My father couldnt agree or disagree. But he did acknowledge any drug company will do clinical trials to sell there drug. Longitudinal studies require more time, effort, and money. How many times in America have you seen the commercial"did you or someone you know take fill in the blank and grow a third arm, have a heart attack, have opiod induced osteoperosis, did there teeth weaken and begin to fall out after 10, 15 years"etc etc. It felt like a new drug every week. Watch John Oliver Opiods on google. When Purdue came out with oxycodone it was heiled a miracle drug. Safe. A cure. They gave doctors teddy bears with oxycodone on them. Then look what happened. My subjective bias experience is I do not trust drugs. Especially ones being deemed as a cure etc.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 3:56 pm 
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https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5pdPrQFjo2o. For your convienence. The beginning is jokes boring etc. Give it a few minutes. This will amaze any opiate addict. Ps lol at 6 minutes. And if you have a short attention span AT LEAST start at 8 minutes


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 6:15 pm 
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AJ89 - That was an excellent video. I needed to laugh because today has been a rough day. The show host makes some really good points and although it's a little on the filthy side for me, I did enjoy watching the whole thing. I think overall it was a missed opportunity to even mention medication assisted treatment especially buprenorphine. He seemed like a really likeable kind of show host that could potentially make an impact with his audience.

It's really too bad he only focused on the fact that we have a problem... we all know that. We need solutions that are proven to work in the long run and so far abstinence isn't cutting it. And not because people like myself haven't tried their very best to 'just not use'. These drugs have such a powerful physical and emotional hold on those addicted. It seems to make sense that it will take another medication like buprenorphine to break the cycle. And yes, we are technically dependent on the medication. But it's in a similar way as someone who needs their insulin.

I also agree that bupe needs to be studied further in long term studies. There are all kinds of medicines that first come out being advertised as safe only to be taken off the market down the road. But I have done my research. I'm not really a scientific kind of guy, I'm more creative but I do have a pretty good understanding of what this medicine is doing to me and how it works. I know there are certain side effects that bother me and there are some people who suffer horribly while on suboxone. Their stories always make me so sad because we only have a few medicines to treat our illness. We are lacking options. I also can tell you that no one has EVER claimed that buprenorphine was a cure. Such a thing doesn't exist yet but I hope it will one day soon.

I'm also highly suspicious of big pharma and those who supply our food and crops like Monsanto. I think it's important for each person to find out what accurate information they can and then make a decision based on those facts. I'd be really interested in reading any research you've come across. If it's highly technical it may go over my head a bit but I love reading about buprenorphine and recovery treatment modalities. So please list any links you think would be important to read. I have the time to do some reading right now and would really appreciate it.

And again, thanks for the link to that video. I don't really watch television, I'm usually on my computer. But he was pretty funny and his jokes really cut like a knife... in a good way. A little more profanity than I prefer but still makes some intelligent jokes.

- OM

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:57 pm 
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Long term suboxone use is in high debate. What my dad is hearing is the main complaints are abdominal pain, ie constipation , nausea, even vomiting. Happened to me after 6 to 9 months. Also depression, depersonalization, isolation, deadening dulling numbing of emotions. And interestingly enough being more susceptible to pain. I dont know why but I hyporhesize its along the same lines of opiate induced osteoporosis as associated with long term methadone use.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 9:37 pm 
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Adrenalinejunkie89 wrote:
There is no theraputic value above 8mg.

AJ, I'm writing this so other's don't get hurt by your dangerous words. For other's, be sure and talk w your Dr. on the dose that's best for you.

AJ, you're way out of line on Suboxone dosages. Its not so simple. Your misinformation can kill.

There's huge individual dosage variability due to many differences: other drugs/meds folks take, hepatic disease, metabolism, oral absorption, pregnancy, coping skills, genetics, nicotine use... a brain scan study further below suggests heavy smokers have much higher WD and higher opiate cravings and lower mu availability than light smokers as the 16 mg bup dose dropped.

Adrenalinejunkie89 wrote:
They didnt even bother to scan 16mg its so high above the point of the saturation of opiate receptor sites.

Not true. Medical researchers did and do continue to scan at doses up to 32mgs because we still have much to learn about this important medication. Nature 2003 https://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v28/ ... 0251a.html

Another research study in 2014 includes prior studies showing scans up to 32mg bup, clearly describe a therapeutic value, at >8mg. Drug and Alcohol Dependence Nov 2014 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4252738/

"Given the complexities of studies on this issue and comorbid problems, we conclude that fixed, arbitrary limits on BUP doses in clinical care or limits on reimbursement for this care are UN warranted."

"Published scientific data suggests SL BUP produces TWO clinically important pharmacodynamic effects that have differing mu receptor availability requirements."

This means the dose needed to suppress withdrawals AND the dose needed to suppress cravings and block use - are different. These also vary per person.

1) Opioid withdrawal suppression appears to require at least 50% of covered mu receptors and this may require daily BUP doses of at least 4mg to defend against trough levels.

2) Cravings especially seen in early and mid recovery are not stopped just by suppressing WD.
Blockade of opioid reinforcing and subjective effects probably require at least 80% or more mu receptors covered.

For most individuals, this may require daily BUP doses of 16mg.

For individuals attempting to surmount this blockade with higher than usual doses of abused opioids, even larger BUP doses and 90% mu coverage coverage would be required.

Also, bup dose studies like those above come into play in successful bup maintenance. In the Probuphine bup implant drug development, they targeted folks with sustained releases equivalent to 8mg daily SL Suboxone. Yet, some needed rescue tablets, a 5th arm implant or used their own bup and fell out of the trial bc they needed more bup to stop WDs and stop cravings. For some, 8mg/day was not enough.

Yes, some folks need more than 8mg and without enough - they can go back out using, collect a few felonies, lose a job or marriage or die. You are not a Dr and your incorrect dose comments are dangerous.

For anyone still reading, Talk w your Dr on the dose that's best for YOU. Best tonight, Pelican
Edited for clarity

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Last edited by Pelican on Sat Jul 22, 2017 11:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 21, 2017 11:04 pm 
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Pelican - Wow, what a great post!! I've been reading the first one you linked and I'm about 75 percent finished. It's really interesting and while I don't understand every thing, I do get a good sense of what they're trying to accomplish with the testing. I haven't even begun on the second link but I will later tonight. Thank you so much.

It's important that people know doses above 8mg do have an effect. For those that are more on the cynical side you might think that doctors just want to prescribe high doses to get their patients heavily addicted so that they need a long taper. That would be more doctor visits and more money for the doctors. I don't doubt that this does happen but I think it's rare is frankly insulting to those who are trying to help treat us. Working with addicts can't be an easy job. The doctors and therapists that have dedicated their lives to saving ours deserve our respect and thanks.

Adrenalinejunkie89 - I can tell you're passionate about your feelings on subs, most of us are. But you have to be careful when you state opinions as facts on a forum like this one. There may not be a ton of people that post here everyday but I can guarantee you that hundreds possibly thousands see this site and read our posts looking for accurate information. A comment like "there is no therapeutic value above 8mg" is an unfortunate and all too familiar belief held by those who have not been convinced of the evidence stating otherwise.

It can be dangerous because someone out there might be on 8mg's and read that and still struggle with cravings. They could potentially think that treatment isn't working and instead of increasing their dose, they may drop out of treatment altogether. I know this is kind of an extreme example but addiction is an extreme and deadly disease. That's why it's so important for us to back up our statements with links to research or articles. We want to have the most up to date information available to our members as well as those who never join us and only come to read our posts.

It's one thing to have an opinion of which you're completely entitled to. But it's another thing when a statement can be proven incorrect by showing so in an article or a study like Pelican has linked to. That's how we try to do it here. That's why I would love to see the research you're talking about that led you to your conclusion. I'm not trying to be antagonizing either, I'm actually interested in reading it. So please, if you get the time we would all appreciate any links you might have. They may contain information we haven't seen before and every one here is concerned with accuracy above all else. We will go wherever the science and the facts point us.

- OM

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Pelican, awesome response and I'm VERY thankful u chimed in.

I agree with Amy about the clean and sober on buprenorphine topic. This isn't a debate on if someone on buprenorphine is clean or sober. It can get some ppl upset because it comes across as someone defining their recovery. Personally I'm doing just fine in my recovery without hearing why someone doesn't think anyone is clean while taking buprenorphine just because it has a partial opiate in it. To even mention it, can bring up pretty passionate feelings from all sides and that's why I think we should steer away from that particular subject.

When u say that anything over 8mg is pointless, there's so much more to consider individually than to say nobody should be on a dose higher than 8mg. So everyone on this forum who's on a dose higher than 8mg is just wasting their medicine and every doctor out there prescribing more than 8mg is wrong? My doctor, the doctors on this forum, they're all doing something wrong? Yes the ceiling level is somewhere between 4-8mg, there is so much more to it than grouping everyone together and saying no one needs more than 8mg. I wish Dr Junig or docm2 would give us their thoughts on this.

Concerning long term buprenorphine treatment, not everyone needs to be on bupe as long as others, I agree. However, other ppl do need buprenorphine long term and even the option of lifelong treatment. Not everyone's addiction is the same. There's just so much more to consider because not everyone had the exact same journey up to this point.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:05 pm 
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I appreciate the words and sources. Pain management and maintenance from opiate addiction to me are mainly what differentiates the neccesity of dosing above 8mg. And about doctors. The vast majority of doctors that prescribe suboxone are horrendously underecutated. I didnt mean to offend anyone. That last post was not my opinion or words. They are my fathers who has held a doctrite from yale university for 32 years. He hasnt specialized in the addiction field in years. He even admits suboxone is way over his head. Hes asking his colleuges that are involved in the addiction field what they are hearing from patients that have been on suboxone for over a year in regards to side effects.And I apologize for not specifying or appearing biasly opinionated. In hindsite, no value is incorrect. Minimal would have been more appropiate, as my opinion. However, my subjective experential opinion, is that when it comes to subs, the least amount you need to maintain abstinence is preferable. Again its just my opinion and experience that going over 8mg in the long run , 6 to 9 month period for me,increased side effects far more than any theraputic value was ascertained. As you guys said, everyones different. I personally cold turkeyed 16mg after a year 5 months ago due to side effects that peaked around 6 to 9 months that happened to coincide with my fathers findings, but to a severe degree. Please, dont do that. Taper slow. And again I seek education more than giving my opinion. I take criticism as a constructive opportunity to re evaluate my position, words, and sources. No hard feelings. Thank you guys


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 6:56 pm 
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We are lucky that we don't have to go very far in order to find opinions from people who have been on buprenorphine for long periods of time. Our forum is made up of them. And the creator of our forum is a psychiatrist who treats Opioid Use Disorder (its official name) with buprenorphine. I believe that he has treated over a thousand patients with buprenorphine products over the years.

Dr. Junig is the one who has noticed the trend in those with Opioid Use Disorder who end up getting well, whether they end up tapering off the buprenorphine or not, but with particular emphasis on those who recover and end up off the meds. What he has seen in his practice is that it usually takes at least a couple of years, really no less than two, for the addict to change his lifestyle so much that it is completely unrecognizable from when he was in active addiction. In other words, he has left old actions behind and now has financial stability, a job, new friends, repaired relationships, new hobbies, etc. He has worked on recovery and knows himself better. The ability to make these changes while not experiencing cravings and withdrawal symptoms is key. From what Dr. Junig has seen, these are the folks who end up living in recovery without relapsing completely back into active addiction.

Jenn is correct in that we don't debate if someone is in recovery here or not. The only person a member can make that judgment on is herself. I will just always think that the signs and symptoms of a person in active addiction is almost all behavioral. It's the changes in behavior that tell others that a person is addicted. After all, no one can see into our bloodstream and know whether or not opioids are present. Deviation from our typical personality is the biggest hallmark to a lay person.

I've seen the John Oliver segment because I watch "Last Week Tonight" all the time. I've loved John Oliver since seeing him on "The Daily Show" for years. I do prefer it when he rants about something and then gives us something we can do about it. Like he did a show on how the new Trump appointee on the FCC, a former Verizon Executive, is trying to convince the American people that net neutrality is not a big deal and that we should let the cool dudes like him, Ajit Pai, make those decisions. John Oliver provided a link making it easy to comment to the FCC on the subject, in large part because it was extremely confusing to know how to write a comment there!

Pelican, thank you for your research and the links you provided. We always feel like we can count on you for accurate, timely information on whatever subject is at hand.

OpenMind, I think you should watch more John Oliver. :) I find him extremely witty and his research is usually dead on. He does use a lot of profanity, but I still really like his show.

Amy

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Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

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