It is currently Sun Aug 20, 2017 3:20 pm



All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Our Sponsors





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:14 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
Thanks Dr. J. I can see your inspiration behind the 100% comment. But there still isn't one study, let alone several.

Seriously if I didn't ask the question, and I believed that there were several studies showing 100% relapse, it'd make me decide to stay on Suboxone for life. That's an incredibly important life changing decision to base on a distortion of the truth.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:13 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:52 pm
Posts: 519
Location: CA
Winningduhepic wrote:
Dr junig is a heavy fentanyl and other synthetic opiate user for decades.


Actually he said in the video that he was on opiates for 16 years, and he stated that he was on Fentanyl only 6 months in his post above.

16 years is not decades. It is one decade, plus 6 years. This statement right here is an example of an oversight. We know what you meant...that he had been on opiates for a long time...but you presented it as a fact that he was on opiates for decades, which it technically not true.

This is pretty much the same thing that Dr. J did in his statement regarding 100% relapse rates. I'm not defending anyone, just pointing out how sometimes we say things that might not be totally accurate to get our point across, without even realizing it. Only, his comments are put under a microscope by so many more people, and expected to have sources cited, since he is a doctor and so heavily involved in spreading the word about Suboxone.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 3:57 pm 
Dr. Junig- I'm 25 and have had my addictions. I do not have the life experience as you do or the medical training. So, I am going to take your word on the extremely high relapse rate, almost enevidable apparently. You have seen patients and people relapse time and time again.That brings me to the one question I have....

How can I prevent relapsing?


Top
  
 
Our Sponsors
PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2012 7:12 pm 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 3:46 pm
Posts: 461
Location: South Florida
Winningduhepic wrote:
Dr. Junig- I'm 25 and have had my addictions. I do not have the life experience as you do or the medical training. So, I am going to take your word on the extremely high relapse rate, almost enevidable apparently. You have seen patients and people relapse time and time again.That brings me to the one question I have....

How can I prevent relapsing?


Can't speak for dr. J but in the video you posted of his, he answers this question. I happen to agree with him, some people hate it but going to meetings regularly helps a lot of people stay sober. I like AA, I'm a drunk as well but I recommend checking it out and NA too or smart or whatever you can get in your area.

-gb


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:58 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:02 pm
Posts: 1002
Winningduhepic don't be worried because of what's been written in this thread. It don't feel that I started a discussion that could make someone's start doubting their chances in recovery.

Dr. J said that he really meant 'most people' who attempt sobriety off opioids end up relapsing. And you probably knew that before you went off Sub anyway.

All's that's been said in here is an opinion based on one person's experience. You could ask an NA old timer, someone equally experienced if not more than Dr. J, about relapse rates, and they'll could talk for hours of all the people they've known who've stayed clean for years. Their opinion would be of equal merit to Dr. J's but a totally different perspective. And they wouldn't be dressing it up as scientific fact.

There's also the people who may have relapsed a few times, but have still had a life of near 100% abstinence and managed a fantastic quality of life. Despite them staying clean the vast majority of their lives, they still count under the "relapsed" group. It's incredibly black and white this whole "relapsed / clean" thing anyway.

If you live each day working towards the best quality of life for yourself and those you love, staying clean will be natural.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 8:09 am 
Offline
Long Time Member
Long Time Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:12 am
Posts: 565
Location: in front of my laptop
TeeJay wrote:
Winningduhepic don't be worried because of what's been written in this thread. It don't feel that I started a discussion that could make someone's start doubting their chances in recovery.

Dr. J said that he really meant 'most people' who attempt sobriety off opioids end up relapsing. And you probably knew that before you went off Sub anyway.

All's that's been said in here is an opinion based on one person's experience. You could ask an NA old timer, someone equally experienced if not more than Dr. J, about relapse rates, and they'll could talk for hours of all the people they've known who've stayed clean for years. Their opinion would be of equal merit to Dr. J's but a totally different perspective. And they wouldn't be dressing it up as scientific fact.

There's also the people who may have relapsed a few times, but have still had a life of near 100% abstinence and managed a fantastic quality of life. Despite them staying clean the vast majority of their lives, they still count under the "relapsed" group. It's incredibly black and white this whole "relapsed / clean" thing anyway.

If you live each day working towards the best quality of life for yourself and those you love, staying clean will be natural.


Well said. I would just focus on being the best person that you know how to be. IF you live our life the way you should, then you should be just fine. Sure, you may slip up from time to time, but that does not discount all the clean time you have! Too many people focus on the number of days that they have clean. Then they slip up and it is all the more traumatic because they feel like they just threw away a year or two or five. That just isn't true. A slip is simply that. As long as you learn from it and keep on trucking, that's all that matters.

Romeo had a great thread called "relapse in progress". TJ mentions the difference between a slip and a relapse in that thread and it is explained witha banana! LOL, I love it! You should read it. Try to ignore some of the ignorance from a few people in the thread. That happens sometimes. I recommend reading it though. I spend a lot of time reading through old threads and I get so much out of other peoples experiences. You seem like a good man Winningduhepic, you are going to be just fine.....Just stay positive and stay away from the people that are just going to bring you down. I do that on here and in my daily life. Negative people are like a cancer and they need to be cut out of our lives in order to be healthy.

Remember, Stay Positive, and you are not alone, we are all (well most, lol) here to support you!

_________________
"All great changes are preceded by chaos."
~Deepak Chopra


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:18 pm 
Great advice TJ and GOINSTRONG.

TJ- No I know your intentions were definately not to have anyone doubt themselves. I thought it was an insanely important topic to bring up. I think the articles that said "100% relapse rate" had ever single reader doubting their recovery though. You had the opposite objective in mind which is why questions came to light. The reason i asked the million dollar question (How to avoid relapse?) was to get a clear simple educated answer that would be best suited for a medical professional to answer. But Dr.'s are very busy. I understand. So, I really appreciate yourhelp and concern. Dude, I'm just gonna have to buck up and go to meetings,stop beina pussy! Why am i so freaked out by this idea of NA? I think i should bring someone close to me to break the ice. Thanks TJ , you the man.

GOINSTRONG :lol: - Super awesome advice hun. Be the best person as possible. Theres oneproblem though, im not a good person to begin with. Haha I'm kidding. Some days i feel like that anyway. Seriously though, i agree with you. A slip sucks, but thats all it is. Keep on movin on and dont look back. Staying away from the trouble makers is a must. Problem is my best freind is a user like me. He just got on a methadone program. I told him dude, please dont. But, he was at the end of his rope. He said Suboxone wasnt working anymore for him. I really pray for him. Anyway, that is a tough situation.... some people close to you are users, what are you gonna do? Ya know...





Also one question for anyone, The topic of the Almost 100% Relapse rate, Are they talking about using one time type of relapse or pickin up again type relapse? A slip up , i wouldnt be nervous about , but what scares me is the addiction train again.


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Some great points TEEJAY
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 9:31 pm 
i hope you dont mind me quoting you TEEJAY- "Using an expression like "approaches 100%" doesn't sound hopeful at all, but the reality is even the most successful medical treatment of a progressive illness has negative results approaching 100%, as people can only be recorded relapsing or dropping out, not returning."

ok, im suprised no one else said this or jumped on this. very important i believe. You're damn right that doesnt sound hopeful. full of dread actually. Im not a doctor but i do know you dont tell cancer patients it is a 100% chance you will die in 3 months. You also wouldnt say this if you were a Dr . or maybe you would?? ALMOSTevery patient i have seen will die in this time frame. and there is nothing you can do to prevent it. I mean ONCEorTWICE they made it but basically you are doomed. "the odds are against you" . Why be positve, your gonna die in 3 months you diseased piece of shit. what the hell kinda frame of mind is that. its a joke


Top
  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:10 pm 
Offline
Power Poster
Power Poster

Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:06 pm
Posts: 41
suboxdoc wrote:
Oops-- one more thing... There are TWO areas where I discuss relapse rates. One is 'after short-term buprenorphine i.e. < 1 year. That was from a study presented at the summit referred to above. The second is in reference to release rates after residential treatment; those comments are based primarily on what I've seen, over the years since my 2001 relapse-- at and after that residential treatment, in a doctors' recovery group, in AODA groups over a 6-yr span, while treating prison inmates for almost 3 years, at the VA domiciliary treatment in Milwaukee, from talking to 600+ addiction patients over 6 years in my private practice, and from experiences as med director of a 50-bed residential program over several years.

My point in spelling them out is to say that I'm doing my best to describe what Ive seen with addiction treatment, across a wide range of patients and programs. Of course, YOUR experience may be different--- but I'd be surprised if it was VERY different.


I know addicts that have been methadone free for years through working a program NA/AA what have you. I was on sub 3.5 yrs and tapered and think it worked out great, although I am having some PAWS. Kambo has reduced my PAWS by about 50% though. It is the real deal and the pioneer is Giovanni Lattanzi. I apply myself and it works wonders. I will not get away from NA because I know it works if one has an open mind and surrounds themselves with the right people. Most importantly, after coming off of sub. It was easy to have it together on sub, although I still used/needed NA.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Our Sponsors
Suboxone Forum latest topics RSS feed Subscribe to the entire forum
 

 

 
Fond Du Lac Psychiatry
Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

  • Board Certified Psychiatrist
  • Asst Clinical Professor, Medical College of Wisconsin

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group