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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 11:24 am 
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New member here in search of immediate help! I joined several days ago and been reading posts. I've read hundreds of posts on different threads in several forums, but can't seem to find anyone with the same problem I have. I decided on membership here because I believe in the theory of sub for long term use, or life. It's so much better than my drug of choice. Most other sites advocate bupe on low doses and off rather quickly. Definitely not for me! I would relapse in a hot minute!

Back Story: I'm a middle age single guy living in Michigan, working full time and nearing retirement. Been an addict over 40 years and you name it, I've done it, drug wise. On Methadone for years at an extremely high dose. Attempted the switch to Suboxone, got in a big hurry putting myself into precipatated withdrawals. HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE experience I wouldn't wish on anyone! Finally successful inducting on 16mgs to get stable. Suboxone was/is AWESOME....for a few years. I tapered my dose down to 2mg to maintain there as long as necessary, probably the rest of my life, then the problems began. I've been on Suboxone for just about 5 years.

The Problem: I'M ABUSING THE HELL OUT OF SUBOXONE!!! I'm 100% ADDICTED as the title suggests! I can't STOP either!!! I've went from the 2mg I tapered to, and was perfectly FINE on, all the way up to 32mg per day, and sometimes as much as 40mg - 64mg!!! Can you say Constipation!!! COMPLETELY NUTS!!!! Just like the chase or thrill of obtaining and preparing other drugs for use it's the same with the subs. I can't hardly wait til my next doctors appointment to get my 32mg per day script, drive as fast as possible to the pharmacy, pace around waiting and waiting for the pharmicist to call my name, counting the 8mg film strips in the car, and putting 3 of them under my tongue just as quick as humanly possible!! Purely addictive behavior!!!

I get home and COUNT them all again. I hide them in different places. I even LOVE cutting the wrapper open with scissors. RIDICULOUS I know!!! I've learned to very easily place 3-4 films under my tongue. I'll wait a few hours and many times REPEAT the process. STUPIDi, STUPID, STUPID!!! It was very easy convincing my sub doctor I NEEDED 32mgs a day claiming pain. I have no serious pain. He takes my GREAT insurance so I have zero co-pay of office charge. I use the 8mg films and my insurance pays the ENTIRE cost with again zero co-pay. Talk about easy! I run out each month so I buy from friends and the street. What an IDIOT!!! Know one knows just how ADDICTED I really am. I'm embarrassed and sick to my stomach of my actions!

I should be on a lower dose while probably having a HUNDRED sub films saved up, but I don't. Wasting money buying more.

I sometimes go a day taking nothing, but the following day I "make up" for that day by taking more and more. I'm sure you're getting the picture! I've also tapered down a bit only to go right back up. No matter what I do or what I try it's NOT WORKING!!! Like I said....I NEED HELP!!!!

Any responses will be appreciated. Suggestions would be AWESOME! Has there been anyone here with the same problem past or present? Can anyone offer a glimpse of hope? Thank you for reading.

Sub Addict


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:14 pm 
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HI Sub Addict,

Every one who takes Subs is physically addicted to the medication, that is a no brainer. However, YOU are addicted to the rituals surrounding taking Suboxone. At the level of taking 3 a day, you are not getting any more "high" or good feelings than if you took about 1/2 once a day. After all your receptors are saturated, that is it, you are just addicted to the action of taking more but you are truly NOT getting any more really in your system. Kinda wasting them...

There is NOTHING wrong taking suboxone for life. But you have to be working on your recovery by other means such as meetings or counseling too. IF not you are still having your addictive behavior surrounding the cutting of the medicine, counting it etc... Addictive behavior.

First of all, try to work on YOUR recover, whatever that might be. And set small goals for yourself. Like next month, you start taking your Subs are prescribed 3 times a day then try to set goals of NOT running out . Then taper from there over time.

Good luck to you and listen to everyone here. The people on this site, give good information out and have lots of experience. You can do this!!


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 4:30 pm 
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Hey Sub, glad you joined us...
Obsession and Compulsion is the Core of our disease. .You are now trapped in this.
It happens. We lose tne mission because we can become complacent or stop doing recovery work.
The need to be reaching for something to make us feel better. What has changed in your life to have you
reaching?
Take a look at that. Ive over taken my med before in the past, and when i did it was mostly because
Id stopped doing recovery work in either meeting rooms or therapy or felt i didnt need others help.
This is a first step for you here, to ask us the whats and whys" of your behavior.
Simple answer is..wer addicts. And thank god your using sub for thisca d not full opiates.
Raudy is right, in back on the script as it is written. Start there. Maybe someone in your life can hold your films
for you till you can stablize.
Most importantly, get your recovery work going again..you did once before, you can do it again.
Also, an honest discussion with your Dr may be in order..imo..

Razor


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Hello sub addict, I think as addicts when we have unhappiness of some type, we feel we need an escape and think taking more of our medicine will somehow "help" us get through it better. Maybe something is going on in ur life like this causing u to take extra of ur sub? There's been times in my past that I have took a bit extra when I didn't know how to deal with my feelings. Of course I looked bk immediately and realized I was only wasting my medicine that I need so desperately. I never felt any better. Maybe if u can identity what's causing u to feel this way, u can stop over taking. I know u can't be getting high off all this extra.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:33 pm 
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Sub Addict,

When I first saw the title of your thread it pissed me off thinking that a Suboxone hater was in our midst. My intention was to change the title to something less dramatic, that won't happen now that I've read your addiction problem.

All the others gave you good advice. There is something inside you that keeps you wanting to cover it up constantly. Whatever that may be, and I could be wrong on this one too, you need serious help dude. Knowing about the ceiling effect and still taking that much is pure insanity. You could probably go a week w/o any and not feel any withdrawal because of all the backup you have in your system.

You need to find a good/great Addiction Therapist. Use that phrase when searching. Not a regular therapist, it has to be one who specializes in the cause of addiction. Someone who can dig down deep and see what's wrong inside your brain. Other than being an addict like all of us.

How much of a bottom do you want to hit before you grasp true recovery? Have you ever heard the phrase "do whatever it takes"? That needs to be you. You need to do whatever is necessary to achieve sobriety. You have insurance, now go find the Addiction Therapist. Please!

rule

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:25 am 
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Lol @ Rule! Sorry the "title" of my thread pissed you off, but I did get a good laugh reading that! NO Suboxone hater here, but instead a Suboxone LOVER!!! Make no mistake, Suboxone SAVED MY LIFE and I will forever be grateful. I think sub could be considered another "wonder of the world" for what it has meant for all addicts everywhere! You will NEVER see me saying anything bad about bupe. I probably should have titled this thread differently now that I think about it. Sorry Rule.

Great insight and responses from the members and I thank you. I KNOW I need help, and probably professional help as was suggested. And I promise I WILL get that help too. I'll begin searching for counselors that may help me the most immediately and keep you informed.

Yes, I'm addicted to the "rituals" of taking the sub as you mentioned raudy, but I'm extremely addicted to the sub itself, for NO reason. I know all about the ceiling effect, and it has NEVER produced any high or more energy that I know of. I just take and take WASTING them as you also said. I said that in my opening remarks. Should have LOTS and LOTS of extras, but I don't. It's really RIDICULOUS!!!

I may have some underlying symptoms that's causing me to do this as JennJenn and Rule said, but I can honestly think of nothing. I'm actually in a good place for the first time in a long, long time. I'm CLEAN for about 5 years and have not taken any other kind of opiate since starting the subs!!! My life was a MESS and in shambles in past years losing EVERYTHING to addiction. Wife, home, job, car, money - all GONE. I've rebounded quite well, have an awesome job, home, etc, etc, dating, good friends, doing nicely and fully prepared for retirement. I'll be able to travel and do nearly anything I desire.

I think the first step is an HONEST conversation with my sub doctor as Razor suggested. He has me on 32mgs per day and I NEVER required that much. 1-2mg holds me great. I'm fearing he may "drop" me immediately, but guess I deserve it if he does. Next appointment is Jan. 5th and I'll prepare NOW for that conversation. I'll let you know how it goes.

My 2nd step is having my best friend help with the matter. I've spoken to him about this problem (he's never been an addict) and he said he'll help in any way possible. Think I'll have him put my subs in the gun safe in his basement so I have no access to them. He'll bring my daily dose to work each day and give me no extras no matter what kind of screaming and yelling I do at him. Lol.

That just might do it. What does everyone think of that plan? I'll begin at the 32mgs per my script and have HIM reduce my dose gradually. Hipefully in time I can get to the 1 or 2mg I KNOW will work just fine!

Thanks again guys. Appreciate the help! I'll post and keep you updated as much as I possibly can. I must say just posting my problem makes a HUGE difference! Kinda takes the pressure off now that "someone" else knows. Sorta motivates me. Awesome!

Kind regards,
Sub


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:46 am 
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Hello sub addict. Im in the same boat ur in.but I only take up to 24 mg a day. But that's because my doc givesme 12 mlg a day asnd I always take 21/2 a day instead of my 3 halfs a day. and my story is axactly like yours. Im from Michigan and also been addidted for about the same time. I was also on high dose methadone for a long time, and tried to switch to sub at 35 mgs of methadone and went into horable with draws. Im glad u posted. It gives me hope. Im not in any recovery programs ,ive been doing it solo, and wow. what a ride. well good luck , hope all wrks out.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:39 am 
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Hey Sub,
Ya, wer addicts. We will reach to feel good. Even wnen life IS good.
I like you new plan.
Give your unaddicted friend your meds. That will work if he is stroug. Sounds like he is.
Therapy is a good choice too.
Ill say this, and it is just my opinion, but as you know you could just half your dose now
and feel fine most likely. After an honest talk with your Dr, he may do that for you.
At any rate, we sre so glad your feeling better and getting started on a real New plan.
This is what this forum is all about. The Best on the Net!
YOU HAVE DONE IT BEFORE, YOU CAN DO IT AGAIN!...
Im 4 years in and havnt looked back...We rebuild.
Hang in there and please keep posting...Razor..


@ Shaggdog..
Well, you have read and seen what one mans plan is. Maybe follow suit and make some change yourself.
Is there anyone in your life that can e of help when it comes to dosing? This is the best ,easist way
to start getting your dose stable.
Shaggy, going it alone isnt recommend. Please look into some kind of peer support. Having others to lean
on is so important. Or finding the therapist ... hey, tou could start a thread here, that would be a great place to start!

Many many people out there over take there med at some point, mostly early on, but not always.
It takes time for the Obsession to use or pick up to go away, or simmer down..good luck..


Razor....


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:41 pm 
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Shaggydog...Our stories and situation is remarkably similar! Are you attempting to lower your dose also? Maybe get off completely? I wish you luck as well and hope you keep me informed.


Razor...I got so motivated by the responses I received that I phoned my sub doctor and told him I needed to see him ASAP. The nurse first thought I was calling because I was out of subs, but I assured her that wasn't the reason. Anyway I'm going in a few minutes (his office is close to my employer) and spill the beans. Hope he doesn't get pissed at me, but that may even turn out to be a good thing if he does.

Thought I would let you know and I'll respond later about the outcome.

Sub


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:13 pm 
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Hey Sub,
Hope he isnt/wasnt to hard on you.
He sounds like a good doc from what you have said..
One step at a time..you can do tnis.and have much going for you...


Razor


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:44 pm 
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Wow this thread went to the other page already. Lol. I realize it's a subject most aren't familiar with as far as subs are concerned.

If anyone's interested, I couldn't make it to the doctor on friday so I went this morning to discuss my "problem" of abusing the subs. I thought he would be so pissed. He was definitely upset, but more hurt and disappointed in me. I understand that completely because we had a great doctor-patient relationship, and he TRUSTED me.

He was giving me 32mgs per day and immediately dropped that to 16mgs starting today. Said if I took more that that he was finished with me. He will check my bupe levels from now on. Can he do that and have a real good estimate or exact amount of bupe in my system? With the half life it seems that would be difficult for any lab to establish? Does anyone know what a close estimate of the ceiling amount is?

He made me sign another form stating what we had discussed. He knows I have enough subs per the last script to last until next month and said he would take me at my word about NOT buying more from friends or the street. I'm going to do my very best to take "only" 16mgs for now.

The doctor said next month we would most likely reduce again down to 8mgs and remain there for about 2 months. Seems like a large drop, but he said it should keep me out of withdrawals just fine. I'm sure it will.

I've ALREADY taken my 16mgs today. That leaves me taking NOTHING the rest of the day and night. HARD, HARD, HARD to do, but I shall give it my best. My doctor IS one of the real good sub doctors and I hate that i lost the trust with him and told him so several times. He replyed that I was an ADDICT and things happen, but I must get on schedule or find another doctor. He STILL wants to help!!!

I took 1 of the 8mg films as soon as I left the office, and another when I got to work. All I can think about is how I'm gonna make it without taking more today. Purely addictive behavior. I put myself in a real mess I hope I can escape from.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:11 pm 
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Hey dude,

Well, I'm really proud of you for talking to your doctor. I know that wasn't easy. I've seen that look of dissapointment on doctors faces before, and it sucks! I also know that what he told you wasn't what you wanted to hear as far as reducing your dose. But, maybe it will help you to have a firm hand right now. I'm not sure I totally agree with how he wants to drop you so soon to 8mg per day...but he is right about the fact that you shouldn't feel any wd at that dose. Did he say he was going to let you stay at 8mg, or is he determined to taper you on down? I hope he is just going to let you stay there. I don't see any benefit to taking you off subs at this point...you clearly aren't ready for that!

As far as your question about the bupe levels, you are right, I don't think they can test for it with 100% accuracy. But, they will be able to tell if you are way below or way above what you should be. I know this from personal experience with my doctor several years ago.

One thing is for sure though. You have taken great leaps in the right direction in getting yourself back under control! I say great job, and keep making the right decisions. You already know that most of the issues you are having with cravings are psychological. Now you just have to put in the work to find a way to deal with them without turning to more suboxone. Have you taken any steps in that direction yet?

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:51 pm 
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Hi qhorsegal2,

No, it sure wasn't an easy thing to do. I'm a big boy and was scared shitless of what he might do or say. He's s real good doctor, but an even better person. I really hated admitting I had lied to him about the pain I was having to get more subs out of him. When I admitted I was also buying more he just dropped his head. That REALLY hurt me. I could tell he was really hurt too. Made it all the more difficult. But I AM proud of myself for standing up to the truth!

Thanks for the info about testing levels. Thought it would be very difficult to test the exact amount in someones system, but knowing if it's over or under makes perfect sense.

As for the rather quick reductions, it was actually my idea of recommending the first reduction to 16mgs. After I admitted what I had been doing he said "well, how much do you believe you REALLY require each day"? Without even thinking I blurted out "I know 16mgs would be just fine". He said that was good and to remain there until next months appointment then we would probably reduce to 8mgs and see how I was at that point. I said that was fine. I just wanted out of there ya know! Lol.

He did say that 8mgs was what I would probably be on the rest of my life because he knows me very well and been my long-time physician well before subs came around. He knows how badly I abused narcotics and everything else.

I also know from past experience that 1-2mgs will also hold me just fine. It's the thought of going that low again that's hard to accept. You're right, this may be just what I need to stop abusing the subs. If I can take only 16mg for now, then drop to 8mg and do ok, i will do my best to get back to 1 or 2mg and that will be my maintenance dose for as long as it takes!

Thanks for the positive remarks! God knows I've beat myself up enough and needed some encouragement. I'll continue to post how I'm doing in case someone else is interested in the outcome.

Sub


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:08 pm 
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Just out of curiosity, what is your routine when taking the 16mg? Like do you split it up? Or take it all at once?

I am pregnant right now, and tapering off suboxone. I am only taking .5mg a day right now, but I started the taper at a much higher dose. I used to only take it once a day, but it was too hard to jump from 1mg to .5mg the way I was taking it. I started splitting the dose to twice a day, and that made it so much easier. I take .25mg two times a day. I think part of it is physical, but a lot of it is psychological for me. I feel better taking it twice, rather than once. Even though it would be the same amount.

I am no expert, this is only my experience. I literally have no idea if this method is not advised, but for now maybe it would be easier for you to split the 16mg multiple times a day. Then you can make sure you're not taking too much, but still spacing it out so you don't feel the urge to take more after you've already used the 16mg.

I would possibly set up a schedule. Like for me, I wake up at 3:50 am for work, then take .25mg. I then take .25mg around 7:00 pm. If I feel the urge to before that time, I just make myself wait until 7. Since doing that, I have gotten used to the lower dose of suboxone and am so close to dropping off completely before I have my baby. It's worked so much better for me than taking it once a day, or even twice a day but at random times. Maybe you could take it more than twice a day if needed? Like split it into smaller sections that all equal out to 16?

I am not sure if this is the best option, but I feel that maybe you could use it to just keep taking the 16mg rather than feeling the need to take more than that. Also, it's a great idea having your friend help you out!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:13 am 
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Hi Remmusx,

I have had no kind of routine in the past taking my sub, and that's been the problem. I took sub all day and night. Yesterday was the first "scheduled" day of 16mg per my doctor and I's agreement. I took the entire 16mgs as soon as I left the appointment!!! I had to really struggle the rest of the day not to take more, but I made it!!!

I honestly ONLY took 16mgs total yesterday. A small victory for sure!

I gave ALL my remaining sub to ny good frind to hold and dispense only at work He's a co-worker. He will keep them locked in his safe at home bringing only 2 of the 8mg films to work for me. Beginning today I will do my best to take 1 film around 7-8 am and the other 8mg film around 2-3 pm. I will take NONE at home and NOT purchase additional subs from friends or the street.

That's my plan anyway. And you're right, I SHOULD have a routine or schedule and stick to it. Take the same amount of sub near the same time each day. You suggested taking it more than once per day and that's been the problem. I think it would be better if I got away from doing that. The doctor and i agreed it would be BEST if I took the 16mgs twice each day and see how that goes. Hopefully it will keep me from taking more sub by dosing multiple times daily.

Thanks for your comments. They are appreciated.

Sub


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:17 am 
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It's a must I believe to have my friend and this forum to hold me accountable. I think posting here will make the difference! I know I need additional support like a therapist/counselor or perhaps NA or AA. I will check into meetings soon.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:12 pm 
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You are so right. Dosing multiple times during the day is doing nothing but feeding that addictive behavior. It is actually best to dose only once per day, but coming from where you were I think twice daily is a good goal to start with.

I'm really very proud of you, dude. Everything I see here tells me you are taking this very seriously and are ready to do whatever it takes to get this train back up on the tracks.

:D

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:31 pm 
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I'm taking this VERY seriously! I knew I had a real problem and was headed for more trouble. I've been terribly constipated as I mentioned in my opening post, but even worse has been my relaxed or slowed/disrupted breathing due to the amount of sub I was taking daily. All narcotics/opiates can have that effect, and as strong as bupe is I needed to stop immediately or risk even more problems.
Sub Addict wrote:
The doctor and i agreed it would be BEST if I took the 16mgs twice each day and see how that goes.
Of course I meant to say the doctor and I agreed it would be best if I took a TOTAL of 16mgs each day in 2 doses of 8mg each. I was re-reading and caught the error. Sorry.

I took 8mgs around 8 am this morning and the other 8mgs just now. My friend said "that was it for today" and not to even ask for more. I have none at home either, he has ALL my subs. Today is the 2nd day of 16mgs and I do feel proud of myself for making it this far!


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:02 pm 
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Hey Sub, I think u should def be proud of urself and for a lot of reasons. First of all it takes a lot of courage IMO to even come out and admit that u were abusing the medicine that ur taking to keep u in recovery. And that happens, we're addicts after all. Second, u had the courage to tell ur doctor which had to be very scary. Third, ur controlling ur dose and dropped to 16mg which is also scary when ur mindset has been more more more. So yes, u should be proud!! I think it is safe to say that at some point in time most of us has taken a little extra at times and I understand how it could be easy to fall into that routine. One of my biggest triggers is feeling bad or sick. My gosh, I go crazy thinking I have to feel better right now. I think years of withdrawal put my mind there or something. And if I was not very careful, I could talk myself right into taking an extra 2-3mg knowing it wouldn't help anything but my mind. So I understand how ur mind plays tricks on ya, and u recognize that now and did something about it. So good for u and yes....be proud of urself :)

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:38 pm 
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Hi jennjenn,

Thanks for the very nice comments.

Well I made it 2 days only taking 16mgs each day. I'm really beginning to believe I can do this! Having someone else hold the subs makes all the difference!

Sub Addict - hopefully no more!


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