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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:34 pm 
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You're awesome jennjenn! I hear ya. I really am only CURIOUS about the ceiling effect of sub. No matter what that entails it won't stop me from doing what's necessary to get my huge dose down to respectable levels.

What makes me curious is if say I get down to 2mg or even 4mg and either dose keeps me completely stable. Does that mean the ceiling for ME is 2 or 4mg, or could the actual ceiling be higher and I just feel good on the dose I'm on at the time? Does that make any sense?

I just thought there may be some kind of formula to figure the ceiling for each person. I realize it must be different for each of us, but thought maybe it was a set amount in some cases.

Hell I don't know what I thought?????? :lol:

I'm not here to be judged or beaten up. I've done that already to myself for being a complete idiot abusing the one thing that has saved my life, the sub. I'm just very curious how this drug works in every way possible. I know I'm taking too much even at 16mgs. I was on 2mg for a while and felt absolutely fine. So I was wondering if 2mg was MY personal ceiling level? But some say it's 4mg, some say 8-12mg, and some say from reading many posts it could be 16mg or higher. I'm just confused by it all.

Guess in the long run it really doesn't matter. I've only taken 8mgs so far today and feel 100% stable. I'm not certain of I'll even take the other 8mg today. I honestly want my dose as far as I can get it and still feel good. I know I'll probably need to remain on bupe for life and that's fine by me.

I'll move on to something else. I have a few questions about bupe in general.

Thanks so much jennjenn. I really appreciate you understanding!

Sub Addict - feeling great!


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:17 pm 
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Hey dude,

Check out this thread:

the-ceiling-t6168.html

This is still the best thing I have read that explains how the ceiling effect of bupe works. I too have seen conflicting reports about exactly what the dose is to reach the ceiling. But, Dr. J explains here that it is definitely different for each person. Several things effect this including absorption, liver function, etc... But, it shouldn't be MUCH different for each person as long as there aren't any extreme health conditions involved.

I feel that about 4-6mg is where my ceiling lies. But, I still feel great at 2mg per day. I know all the receptors aren't at 100% saturation at this dose, but I have become accustomed to it and I have no wd even at 1mg per day. The way I understand it is that you can be very comfortable at doses below the ceiling given enough time for your body to adjust. Dosing below the ceiling doesn't mean you will feel wd's, just that there are still receptors that aren't being covered and if you were to take more you might actually feel the effects of the extra bupe. At doses above the ceiling you won't feel any better by taking extra because your receptors are already 100% saturated.

HTH!

Q

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:14 pm 
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I have to now wonder if you are confusing the ceiling level with a dose that keeps you from having physical withdrawls. It sort of sounds that way. If not then I'll just explain it for anyone who may be confusing the two in this manner.

The term of "ceiling" only refers to that dose for which taking any more medication results in no additional effect. It would be like filling up a room to the CEILING with water. At some point, it doesn't do any additional good to pump more water. The room is full. That should not be confused with the amount of medication needed to stay out of withdrawl or free of any withdrawal symptoms. That dose can be as low as 0.15.

So given all of this, it's really really hard to tell where the ceiling really is. 4 mg seems to be about that point. If stable on 2 mg, taking 4 at your next dose will likely produce some sort of response. If you get back to stable at 2 again and thins time take 6 but recieve no discernible different result you've exceeded the ceiling. The ceiling equals the level in milligrams where no additional result is obtained no matter how much more medication is taken.

Hopefully that sheds a bit more light on it. And by the way, I was not at all being a smart ass in my previous responce - so that was a fail on that assumption. See that time I was making a smart ass comment. :) not everything I say is meant as sarcasm. WTF?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:53 am 
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qhorsegal2 wrote:
Hey dude,

Check out this thread:

the-ceiling-t6168.html

Hi qhorsegal,

Thanks for taking the time to provide the link for me. It really does explain how the ceiling effect/level works. I've researched many posts, threads, and links from others and Dr. Junig hoping to find the answer to my exact question.

I don't want to know how the ceiling level works, I know all about the mechanism and fully understand the entire process quite well. instead I was wanting to know what the ceiling level IS for each person. Is yours 4mg and mine 8mg? Or is another persons 12mg and the next persons 16mg? Does it vary greatly, or is it a fairly close number for each of us as a whole? HOW DO YOU KNOW FOR CERTAIN?

Like in your own case for example: You said you "think" your ceiling may be around 4-6mg. But you still feel great at 2mg per day. Soooo how do you know for certain that your ceiling isn't 2-4mg instead of the 4-6mg you think it is, just because you feel ok at the lower dose? Maybe it's 8mg for you?

I think you hit the nail on the head when you say:
qhorsegal2 wrote:
The way I understand it is that you can be very comfortable at doses below the ceiling given enough time for your body to adjust.


I fully realize a person may not feel WD's if their dose is under their ceiling. I get that.

I'm going to let this go. I guess it hardly matters if you're on a dose that keeps you out of withdrawals, the very reason you're on bupe in the first place! I like to READ and understand everything I can about a drug that has saved my life. I want to understand how it works forward, backwards, and in between. In my line of work I'm required to know how EVERYTHING goes together to make a final product using every piece of evidence at my disposal.

Really, thank you Q, Your response is positively appreciated.

Sub Addict


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:21 am 
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donh wrote:
I have to now wonder if you are confusing the ceiling level with a dose that keeps you from having physical withdrawls. It sort of sounds that way.
Noooo, that's not it at all. Believe me when I tell you I understand the entire process of buprenorphine quite well. I've been on subs for nearly 5 years, have around 20 or so friends (at any given time) on bupe therapy that I've helped along the way with inductions, tapers, and questions. I've researched this drug for years, speaking with doctors, pharmacists, and chemists. I've also read hundreds of threads/posts from different forums including nearly everything Dr. Junig has produced. I'm NO expert of any kind, but I really do have a very good understanding of all bupe products.

I'll take you at your word you meant no harm, donh. I did read where you recently upset another member with the same "kind" of response. That person thought the same as I did. Maybe it's the way your words come across? In any event I shall let it go and continue forward. I hold no grudge ever!

I wish you the best donh.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:39 pm 
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I'm going to continue posting here to establish a record of my progress.

Just to update: I was taking in excess of 32mgs of subs per day and many time LOTS more than that. My doctor prescribed the 32mgs and I bought additional from friends and the street. I was addicted to the subs themselves, and the ritual of taking them.

I told on myself to my doctor. He was hurt because I had said I needed more for pain issues and that simply was not true. He was upset and immediately reduced my dose to 16mgs per day beginning Dec. 15th. So about 2 weeks on that dose and I've actually been able to stick to that. It's a huge mental battle, but I knew I had to get that dose down and under control. I'm actually quite proud of myself!

A friend has all my subs and dispenses them daily to me for now. Only when I'm 100% positive I can trust myslef will I gain control over the dosing. Not right now.

My next appointment with the sub doctor is January 5th and he intends on reducing my dose to 8mgs per day per our conversation. Now THAT is going to be a real challenge that I'm trying to prepare mentally for right now. I've been down to 1-2mgs previously and felt ok there. I may end up around that dose and it will most likely be for the rest of my life. Could be higher.

So all good for now. Hope everyone had a nice Holiday.

Sub Addict - rolling along


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:31 am 
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Hi SA!

Firstly, a HUGE CONGRATULATIONS to you for being so honest (with yourself, with your doc, posting on here). You rock!!! :D :D :D

Regarding the ceiling effect, I've been on Sub for the better part of seven years, have had a few attempts to quit, have had my dose as high as 24mg per day, and been all over up and down, and recently jumped at .75mg per day. I do not advocate what I'm about post, this was stupid of me and playing with fire- years ago, when I got my dose down to about 1mg, like the good little addict I was/am, I'd periodically take an extra milligram or 2 to flat out feel the buzz. And it worked and I'd read books like a champ when I did that (I don't know, that's just what I gravitated to when I did that). I never felt buzzed once my body was used to 4mg or above.

Tapering this year, I did the same thing a couple of times at around 2mg and 1mg with what ended up being totally different results. Not once did I feel that buzz again. Actually I felt sick, dizzy, almost instant headache, unmotivated, depressed and just wanted to fall asleep after a couple of hours, then got to deal with that oh so familiar, nasty constipation that came for the next few days and the total disgust with myself. I don't know if that was about my ceiling level changing or what, but I'm glad I couldn't feel it (which has lead to kind of a nice realization that maybe it's just not possible to get high on opiates anymore, whether that's actually true or not, I don't know, but I'm personally better off believing it is true and so that's what I believe).

Years ago, it became this sick game I'd play with myself and I hated myself for it. Maybe I'm confusing the terminology here because I know ceiling effect does not necessarily equate to the ability to feel a buzz or not, being below it could I think, but I think in general, our ceiling effect can and does change- with what's going on in our lives, our stress levels, our own personal body chemistry, our age, what other meds we are on the changes with those over time, what we eat, how long we're at certain doses, what else we put in our bodies, our metabolism. That's my experience and 2 cents with the somewhat limited knowledge I have.

Anyway, you're doing awesome and an even bigger congratulations for giving your friend the extra doses you found!! You definitely passed a major test there. A+ for that!! :D

Take care!

Sage
xoxo


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:03 pm 
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Hello Sage,

I agree with your thoughts concerning the ceiling level of bupe. I too believe that it can change at times depending on several factors as you mentioned. I also realize the ceiling gets confused with how stable we are. I don't personally believe the ceiling effect is ALWAYS one set number or dose. I think it fluctuates according to the factors you brought up. Good point Sage!

Funny, but like you I also tried to get that ever loving buzz sometimes. I would either reduce my dose drastically from 32mgs all the way to 1-4mgs, or I would completely stop taking subs altogether for a few days until I felt withdrawals a bit. Then I would take around 16-32mgs in hopes it would hit me good. I can honestly tell you I NEVER received the buzz or high I was searching for. Instead it was more of an "energy boost" or increase I would say. I would have this sudden burst of energy that had me never sitting down, but instead doing all sorts of things. It only lasted a very short time.

I'm NOT recommending anyone do as I did either. That was completely stupid and NOT the way subs are intended to be used. Please no one attempt this. I'm actually RELIEVED I received no buzz or high because things may be even worse than taking high doses and wasting subs. I like you hated myself for what I was attempting.

What's got me so upset is I know around 2mg will keep me completely stable because it DID, yet I still continued abusing them. I couldn't STOP no matter how hard I tried. I nealy threw ALL the subs I had away more times than I can count I was so disgusted with myself. I had no one to hold me accountable.

All it took was for me to sign up here and tell my problem to cyber friends! Funny really. I couldn't tell close friends or family my problem, but it was fairly easy to tell here. It hasn't been easy I'll admit, but I'm doing something positive now and for that I'm so thankful.

BTW: I cut off all ties to my "friends" and dealer(s) to obtain subs. I delleted all names and numbers and told all to NEVER call or sell to me ever again as I wasn't interested. I had my friend (that holds my subs) with me as a witness while doing so and THAT made me feel extra good!!!

Thanks for your response Sage. It was appreciated! I did read your thread and want to congratulate you for getting off the subs. Not sure if I could ever do that, or should really, but it's working for you and that's great!

Sub Addict - preparing my mind


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:24 pm 
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Update: Had my monthly appointment with the sub doctor today as I previously mentioned.

Bottom Line: I'M COMPLETELY SCREWED!!!

I could tell he was NOT in a good mood right from the start. Felt my pulse and heart rate rising. His body language said plenty. Usually he calls me by my first name and says "hello, so and so, lets chat a while" or something close to that smiling or laughing. Well today he says "Ok Mr. _____, lets get this over with quickly". I actually laughed thinking he was joking, but found out it was definitely no laughing matter.

He had the original contract I signed at my very first appointment with my chart and it was on top. He kept glancing over it and shaking his head back and forth in a disagreeing manner. It was eerily quiet and finally he said "well after your last visit I was thinking about your dishonesty and you admitting it". To update for convenience purposes, I was on 16mgs a day and lied about having pain to get my dose raised, plus buying from other sources, friends and the street He agreed to give me 32mgs of sub film per day! I was buying and abusing LOTS and LOTS of sub.

I came clean at my last appointment and admitted EVERYTHING to him in an attempt to get back on track and my dose substantially lowered. My thoughts were to have this forum and HIM hold me accountable. I felt good telling him too! I felt proud.

Anyway he says "we had a verbal and written understanding. You signed some documents, and you've been an excellent patient for the nearly 5 years regarding Suboxone that I've seen you. But after giving the matter careful consideration I'm DROPPING you as my patient effective immediately". WTF??? I nearly fell on the floor!!! Seriously!!! He told me I would be receiving a formal letter in the next few days. I was in SHOCK!!!!

There were lots of back and forth banner with me attempting to get him to change his mind. Wasn't happening. Told me he could no longer trust me basically and that was that. No goodbye script to get me through until I could find another sub doctor. Promised him I would relapse, it didn't seem to matter.

Talk about a reversal of fortune. I thought he respected me for telling on myself. I knew he wasn't happy, but said he understood at the time. I was nearly driven to tears!!!! I BEGGED him to please reconsider. NOPE. Asked him to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE give me a small script of a few subs to get me by until I could find another doctor. NOPE. SORRY. And he's my regular physician too so I'll have to find another one eventually.

I did my best to reverse the situation without crawling across the floor and kissing his feet. He just wasn't changing his mind. Then I got PISSED, really PISSED!!! Said some things I probably shouldn't have said. Like I said: I'M SCREWED BIG TIME NOW!!!!

I'm assuming IF, a very big IF I can find another sub doctor he/she will call or check with this doctor and that may not turn out good depending on what is said. I've had only 1 sub doctor the entire time (almost 5 years) I've been on subs. NEVER had a dirty urine. NEVER missed/late for an appointment, NEVER taken any kind of opiate other than the subs. I really was a good patient, but I DID lie to him to gain more subs. Yup.

I ABSOLUTELY REALIZE IT'S MY OWN FAULT. I caused this to happen by being dishonest. But come on, no second chance? It was too severe of a crime for him to reconsider he replied. Wanted to punch his lights out!!!! A younger me definitely would have!!! Lol.

Soooo what the hell do I do now? If I run out I'll relapse. Fact! In anticipation of today's appointment I reduced my daily dose from 16mgs to only 8mgs on Saturday. Yayyyy! Boy was I proud of myself. My friend hold the subs and I have a TOTAL of 4 of the 8mg films left. Only 4!!! Only 4 days worth!!! OMG!!! Might have to try taking only 4mg? Maybe even 2mg?

I've already called around 10 sub doctors with all replies saying "no openings at this time". I'll continue calling of course, but I'm so afraid I'll search out the one way I know where to get subs. Illegally of course. If I do obtain any that way I know what will most likely happen. I'll be right back abusing them again.

That's what I get for being honest!!!

I'M REALLY SCREWED. Any thoughts?

Sorry this is so long, I'm just VENTING!!!!!

Sub Addict - worried.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 5:43 pm 
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Subaddict,
Let me be the first to say how sorry I am. I believe I told you that honesty would be the best.
i still do, but you just never know in the sub world what the powers that be will do. We are not to be trusted. Period.
Wer addicts uno, the liein cheating ,stealing types..TThe guilt and shame we deal with from the Others in the world.
Its hard sometimes..so...this old dr of your?, let him GO..
And his judgements..I see and deal with kind of thing every week in my town and clinic. Anyway....
Ill tell you this too, Do not relapse Sub,do whatever you need to so you dont pick up. I am not going
to spell out all the wroug things about it.. The hard part is we build trust with our Drs, and start to feel we are become a trustworthy person in there eyes and others. Often if we stumble, that trust disappears. Then the attitude as i wrote in the begining comes back to the surface.
You told the truth. Believe it or not that was the right thing to do. It set in motion your come back.So now its time to keep fighting SubAddict. Keep calling those other places EVERYDAY . Over and over. Something will shake out.
It will.
You can as you stated drop your dose. You have done it before, you can do it now. At least till you can get more. But please, do not reach for a full agonst opiate. More trouble will come of it..
My biggest problem with the old doc is he wouldnt give you an exit script. Plain straight up crucial to your heath..
I do not get that from some drs. But...

Hang in there man, ..others will have an opinion an should be here soon. .....Razor..


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:16 pm 
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Hey Sub.....omg!! Do u know how pissed off that makes me that ur Dr after 5 yrs dismisses u over 1 mistake. A mistake that he'd never even known about if u hadn't been honest with him. Then after that he doesn't even give u one last months worth...a week...3 days...no nothing?? I get that he has his documents with ur signature, but what about being a caring human being?? Does he think this makes him a hard a** and setting an example. I don't know and i'm sorry for being so angry but how could someone do that after u were honest and never been in trouble with him until now? I guess if he wanted to discharge u then whatever he has to do I guess, but to not even give u at least a weeks worth? My advice would be to call each place over and over. I really hope u find a place and do whatever u need to do just don't use. Buy em off the street if u have to until u can get in somewhere. I am so so sorry this happened to u. Don't feel bad for telling the truth though, in ur heart u did the right thing and if someone who's job is to help ppl chooses to be an a** then let that motivate u to succeed to the highest level. I'd like to give that Dr a big kick in the backside. Ur doing great and u have accomplished so much so don't let this stop u....u can do this!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:52 pm 
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I am so so sorry you are going through this. It really makes me re-think suggesting anyone put themselves and their health at risk by being this honest. Your main focus right now has to be on getting through this. You have to reduce your daily dose as low as you can. You also have to find a new doctor. That is also jobs one and two.

You will get through this and when you do, I very strongly suggest you do two things. First submit in writing a request to obtain and pick up all of your medical records from this doctor. Also in that letter tell him that any previous permission direct or implied by you allowing any of your medical information to be shared is rescinded immediately. Tell them they do not have your permission to share or disclose any of your medical information with anyone for any purpose and doing so will be considered a breach of applicable state and federal laws and will be aggressively pursued by you in any legal method required. This will if nothing else scare him from saying anything to anyone about you.

Finally, after you find a new doc and you will, contact your state medical board to file a formal complaint. Because you signed a contract not a lot may come of it. However given this is addiction we are talking about and relapse is an accepted and understood component it may. Regardless it will force this doc to defend himself to this board - especially any potential patient abondonment issues. It may also help the next patient he considers doing this to. You can help a future patient here. He will think strongly about doing this again in the same manner and getting another complaint or even just having to go through another investigation.

Docs are nothing more and nothing less than people. They sometimes need to be re-educated. Don't let this go unchallenged - not to retaliate but to hold him accountable and help the potential next person.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:38 pm 
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It is amazing but I agree with donh 100%...I would not let this go without making things as difficult for him as possible I nothing else but to help a future patient.. I do understand that you had a contract and didn't hold up your end but guess what..WE ARE ADDICTS AND WE SCREW UP SOMETIMES...Listen do not give up brother keep calling and calling and make sure you ask them even if they are full if they could put you on a list in case they end up with a opening because it happens that addicts quit or cancel all the time..Also do they have any clinics where you live ?? There is a couple where I live that do suboxone and methadone but you have to come in weekly for suboxone but better than the alternative...Good luck


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:21 am 
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I'm new to this Forum but I am not new to Suboxone.....I was on it for 6 years and have been off of it for over a year now.....it has not been easy and still isn't ....anyways, did you know that your body can only absorb 3 strips/pills a day so any extra that your taking is not being absorbed, but just wasted, because I used to take more than prescribed also only to find out that I was just wasting the medication not to mention money and at $590 a month that's bo joke because I have no insurance. Suboxone will not get you high like other opiates. It will make you tired but not high. It's strickley so us addicts can get our lives back together and function and ......................................! Well I was on it for 6 years yes my life is on track and has been but my emotional and physical state is a mess! I miss sleeping sound I've gained 40 lbs and I'm now bipolar at least that's what my new dr. Thinks. Suboxone kept me level and focused and now I'm like a zombie. But I will never ever touch that shit again or any other opiate for that matter. I'm glad I made it through the WD's but it WAS NOT FUN AT ALL sometimes I still think I experience what I call phantom WIthdrawls....about 2-3 times a month I get RLS and insomnia like crazy.....like I'm going through it all over again...!


Last edited by qhorsegal2 on Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Inappropriate sub-bashing


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:25 am 
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Thank you so much for the responses everyone, and the support. I kinda expected to hear, hey it's your own fault for telling on yourself. I'm sorry for thinking that. Nothing but support and great info that makes me so happy I'm here. I really do need you guys more than ever! I'm scared to death of taking all the sub I have and relapsing on whatever drug I can find once I do run out, if I haven't found another doctor. It gets real frightening very fast!

Real good advice Donh and I appreciate the thoughts. I'm gonna do just as you suggest too. Once I do get in to see another sub doctor I will file a formal complaint with the local medical board. Might not do nothing but make me feel better, but it also may have him called in on the carpet to explain his side of things too. I'm still extremely upset at what happened. If I can put some pressure on him like he has on me I'll feel better I think.

And I will write that letter to him insisting all my medical records be made ready for pickup by me. And I definitely will put in writing another letter stating he does NOT have my permission to share any of my medical information with ANYONE, and any agreement signed or permitted by me previously is now rescinded immediately. I'll do that today! Really great advice Donh!

I do have an attorney and will be contacting him today seeking advice. I'm not after him in any kind of financial way because I DID lie to him. I honestly believe it's immoral of him (and goes against the Hipocratic Oath) not to give me that exit script for a few subs to get by until another doctor can be found, which I'm sure he knows will take some time where Suboxone is concerned. He actually put my health, even my life in jeopardy by refusing to be compliant in my opinion. I would like to hold him accountable for that alone. Even if I received an apology I might feel better, who knows?

Many thanks Razor, Jennjenn, Donh, and Alwaysthesame for the incredible support! I'll keep everyone updated with any and all info I receive. On the phone today searching for a sub doctor while doing my best to take only 2-4mg of sub. Gonna be difficult, but I know this can such a mental challenge too. Take care everyone.

Sub Addict - hopeful


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:34 am 
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Kendra,

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you about Suboxone being "the devil". This drug has SAVED MY LIFE and I will forever be greatful of that fact. I'm an addict that will require being on this drug the rest of my life most likely. The rate of relapse is just too high once off it for me to take any kind of chance on. Another relapse will likely kill me due to the level of tolerance and amount I was taking each and every day for decades. Instead of it being the devil it's actually been a Godsend!

Guess you didnl't read my previous posts, but I'm well aware that taking "extra" bupe does no good. The very reason I'm here to to stop abusing this drug in huge doses. I know all about how it's absorbed. I realize you're new, but you may want to read entire threads before making comments. I'm not intending to be mean, just providing some info for you. I wish you well Kendra. Stick around, this is a really great forum!

SA


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 8:53 am 
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Your dr. Should not have dropped you like that....especially without giving you a script first and enough time to find a new sub doctor...I would demand a script...I used to text my dr. All the time when I ran out .....and there's a 3 day rule on medication if you run out any sub dr. Can give you 3 days worth until your next appt. I think your dr. Could be liable for not giving you proper treatment in an emergency and when WIthdrawls start that to me constitutes a major emergency!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:32 am 
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SubAddict

First of all it is against the law to discharge a patient without giving them 30 days of ALL Medication the doctor has prescribed!

Second is Donh is absolutely correct. It's imperative you do that asap so he can't talk to another doctor. If you have your records there is no need for the new doctor to call him.

Your doctor should not punish you for being honest! I can see him insisting you get counseling or attend meetings or come in every week for a pill count but not to discharge you.

Perhaps you can call or send a certified letter (if you dont want to call & to have proof) saying with the discharge letter please include the scripts for sub & whatever else you were on as the law states. He should at least know by law he has to give you 30 days.

Would you be earlier for a script? If so he would have to date it for the correct date due for refill. Can you tell me what state you are in? Maybe someone else has info or we can look up you state law's along with the federal laws regarding discharge of a patient.

Even if you call sub doc's that are a small distance it can be a temporary fix until you find an opening closer.

You have OPTIONS. Please don't pick up drugs!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:47 am 
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Posts: 517
Kendra

I also disagree with you. Sub saved my son's life. He has 3 years "clean enough" and has rebuilt his life. I don't even want him off sub because those cravings come right back and i may lose him. With regard to w/d's-well everyone experiences them. You play you pay and who is to say if you had just gotten through you drug of choice w/d's that you would even be alive today and you would probably feel the same?? It's a choice, we can use a medication for a disease and rebuild or we can use our "doc" until we die. If after we got through w/'d's from our doc we felt fine then why do so many go back and use?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion but i wanted you to see the other side of suboxone, the one where my son is alive and doing well.

Sorry i high-jacked your thread SubAddict


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 11:09 am 
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Location: West Tennessee
@Kendra,

I understand you are new to this forum, but we do not allow members here to make negative comments about our life-saving medication that are not based on fact.

Most of our members here are very educated about how suboxone works, including the ceiling level you mentioned, and you aren't likely to change any minds by spreading false information.

Thanks!

Q

_________________
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent. ~ Eleanor Roosevelt


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Dr. Jeffrey Junig, M.D., Ph.D.

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