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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:56 am 
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no, im not tapering down, im actually tring to get higher dose. I went to my monthly dr appointment yesterday and I was2 days early for getting my scripted because of insurance. the pharmacist said if I got the light orange cololered pills that I could actually get my script the 2 days early. so I got them because I was out of my strips already. ive been taking pills for for a day now. not sure if I like them. maybe alittle easier to take. but not sure if Im going back to strips next time yet. And also, that's great that u have come clean with ur dr. I don't have the nerve yet. I guess im not ready to. Ofcoures all I have to do is start takeing it the right way, and don't even tell my doctor, Becouse im not ready to come down yet. Id at least like to stay where im at good luck, that's awesome, ur a hell of a person to do the right thing. Good luck. Ill be on this stuff for years, probably rest of my life, im a really bad addict, ive been addicted since I was 13 yrs old. Now im addicted to just about everything. But for now I just switched my addictions to subs.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:02 pm 
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Being honest with my doctor was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Still have trouble believing I did it! Yeah I could have reduced on my own without telling him, but that was the problem, I kept taking more and more, even buying more. I had to make myself accountable to someone if I ever was to get my dose down to respective levels.

I know I'll have to remain on bupe a looong time, probably for the rest of my life due to my addiction level and tolerance. I was taking so much garbage you probably wouldn't believe me if I told you how much.

This is kinds gross, but important to mention I think. I've had HORRIBLE constipation for a long time taking so much bupe. Taking over 32mgs a day kept me pluggged but good. Well I'm on my 3rd day of 16mgs and I had a "natural" bowel movement this morning for the first time in quite a while. OMG it felt so good! Lol.

Doing good folks. I've made the committment and I'll stick to it!

Thanks for posting Shaggydog!

Sub Addict - getting better one day at a time!


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:09 pm 
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LOL....

That's funny SA, but only because I know EXACTLY how you feel! It might be gross, but it's something every opiate addict has dealt with at one point or another.

Here's hoping everyting keeps moving in the right direction for you! :lol:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:17 pm 
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Hehehe....I had to go to the hospital once because it got so bad. After they gave me the kind of "relief" they usually give those in this situation and it didn't work the doctor told me to hang on, they were going to try dynamite!!!! Lol . :lol: I thought that's what it might take!!! Lol.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:51 pm 
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It is funny how we addicts react when the thought of reducing our dose w/o wanting to puts us into a panic. Then you take the reduced amount, wake up the next day and realize nothing happened. So you repeat it again, and nope, no w/d's or any nasty cravings. Just the mental part of the ritual. Been there, done that.

Once you keep dosing at the same amount each day, whatever it may be, you'll find that overall you feel just fine. After several days or weeks, whatever, it won't matter anymore and you won't think about it.

Sounds like things are going better for both of you. Congrats.

r

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:08 pm 
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Well I was sailing right along doing better than I imagined. Then I was looking for something in my dresser this morning and found 2 of the 8mg films. I immediately got a sickly sinking feeling in my stomach. Instead of tossing them I put them in my wallet and took them to work with me. I didn't tell my friend (he's a co-worker) that's holding all my subs either. I've taken them out 2-3 times just looking at them fighting the urge hard not to take 1 or both. Can't believe how strong the pull to take one is even tough I know there won't be any kind of euphoric feeling associated with it.

I'm not certain giving them to him is best right now? If I did I know I wouldn't take one, but should I hang onto them and use them as motivation NOT to take one? If I know I have them, but refrain from taking extra would that be beneficial to me or work against me? Or am I being the good addict I am?

I know what I have to do. Sorry, just venting. Not as easy as I thought I was!

Sub Addict - still battling.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:33 pm 
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Hey Sub,
If it were me, id dump them ASAP.
Your going to possably screw your progress up here imo.
Just putti g them i your wallet was a sign there you hzve control. Maybe ya do. But if Suboxone is your drug of choise then your playing a game that you can lose..Give them up of go toss them now..

Your doing better these days..
Keep it going..razor


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:16 pm 
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Hey sub :) well I believe I can speak for all us addicts and say that this has all happened to most of us at one point in time or another. And even though ur brain is telling u "I may need this extra put bk to where I can get to em" it is actually just putting u through some mental torture. You will have to argue with urself constantly on what the best thing to do is. If it were me I'd like to think that I would be strong enough to hand em over to my friend. But that is easier said than done. I think ur doing very well by not ripping them open and taking em whenever u found em in the first place. So give urself some credit, a week ago you'd taken them without thinking about it. So u have made some awesome progress. So maybe give em to ur friend so u can keep that progress going. Keep being honest, it really goes a long way in making u feel good about u. And in the end, that's the goal ur trying to accomplish. Keep us posted :)

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:48 pm 
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Thanks Razor, and I agree 200% with what you said.

Jennjenn,

That was a great post! Really got my attention. I took them out of my wallet and turned them both over to my friend immediately after I read your post. You helped probably more than you realized and I thank you so much. Right time for sure! Thanks again both of you!

SubAddict - working forward


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 18, 2014 8:24 pm 
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Hang in there Sub Addict.
You just passed a big test !!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 11:50 am 
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Hey Sub! U did awesome! I am so glad u got those out of the way and now u can't argue with urself on when or if to take it. Just u doing that inspires me seeing how strong that was. I know when ppl recommend to do something, its def not that easy to just say...Ok no problem. When u do something like that to make urself feel good about you, more than likely u will keep that going cause its such a good feeling being proud of urself. We as addicts beat ourselves up for so long over the bad things we did while using, and actually being able to feel proud of ourselves for anything feels wonderful. So again....u did great and I see ur great progress. Keep posting! :)

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:05 pm 
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Great post JennJenn!

I'll just second what she said. :D

Doesn't it feel good to be proud of yourself again SA?

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:01 pm 
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You've got this figured out pretty well jennjenn! You really do understand just how it is. Those 2 subs were driving me INSANE!!! I took them out of my wallet a couple times and nearly threw them in my mouth. I knew they wouldn't do a single thing more than the dose I'd already taken for the day. Addiction is one nasty disease. My friend was STUNNED when I gave them to him. First he thought I bought them, but I explained they were in one of my hiding spots. Told him there were no more in my house, and there isin't.

And you're right, when I gave them up it made me feel real good about myself. I felt proud for a minute. Even though I've stuck to just 16mgs a day it's not been that easy. I've wanted to call my friend a couple times telling him I "lost" my 2 subs or the dog ate them. :lol: Something along those lines. Just like good addicts do occasionally. Addictive behavior and thoughts. Yukkk. But I got a grip, thought hard about things, and realized I was gonna be just fine taking the 16mgs for now. I'm even considering reducing to 8mg per day and staying there I'm so motivated right now. Probably shouldn't push it until after Christmas or my next appt with the doctor. One minute I'm ok and the next it's get's rough.

Yes, I've beaten myself up for a long time too. Some of the crap I did make me sick to think about it. Hurt so many people, lost trust, etc, etc. I'm sure we all have. Thank God for Suboxone!!! I would be dead without it. That's a FACT!!!

Another great post jennjenn. And thank you too qhorsegal. Yes, I feel VERY proud for making it THIS far. Thanks to all who have helped and supported me. Made all the difference. You guys are keeping me accountable. No one ever has before!

Sub Addict - feeling good!

P.S. I saw I had a private message at the top of the screen. When I clicked on it all that was there was a copy of my first post. No other message? It was from the member "pugsmommy". I wasn't sure what to do so I'm putting it here in hopes that person will see this and maybe respond either here or in another private message. Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:25 pm 
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I'm doing ok on 16mgs a day down from 32+ mgs. It's not that easy as my addict brain tries to convince me to take more and that will make me feel better. I know that's not the case, but it's definitely a fight.

Does anyone know what the ceiling level is with bupe? Is it different for everyone? Is there any kind of "formula" to figure out what the ceiling dose would be for me? I'm just very curious.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:56 pm 
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I believe the original thoughts that the ceiling "number"is 4mgs. Dr J has written about this over in the Talkzone many times Sub Addict.
Some believe it is in the 8 to 12mg level. To me ths seem abit high.
Is everyone different? Well i guess so, but for me i know from experience that after 8 mgs im wasting my meds.
If you go the the Sub Search and type in Ceiling Effect in the Talkzone, we will find many posts from our Dr on this.
I jumped from 6mgs to 8ms over night 2 years ago and felt better. Im at 5mgs these days.

Hope this helps abit


Razor


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:05 pm 
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Thanks for the info Razor. I've looked at lots of Dr. Junigs posts and videos about the ceiling level of bupe. He explains it all so well, but not exactly what I was searching for. I understand HOW the ceiling effect comes to be, I'm wanting to know if there is a way I can figure out as close as possible what that level is for ME personally. How can I find my own bupe ceiling effect? Is it 4mgs, maybe 8mgs, or how about 12mgs, or could it be 16mgs or more? Know what I mean?

Some say it's 4mg like you Razor, many say it around 8 - 16mgs as you also said.. A few even say it's about 32mgs. It seems like the exact level might not be a known thing? I realize it can depend on many variables, but it does seem like there might be one dose that closely covers most everyone. Maybe not.

Maybe I'll send Dr. Junig an email or message and see if he can help. Sounds like a question that maybe can't be answered?

Many thanks again. I appreciate your post!

SubAddict - still plugging along.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:08 pm 
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I'm curious why you are asking this question? Trying to find a reason for "your ceiling" to be at 16 mg or even higher? Just a gut guess there. I would say for certain it is absolutely no higher than 8 mg. That is going to be the absolute top for 99.9% of people - yourself included. As others have said 4 mg really does seem to be the ceiling for nearly everyone. Other than dosing for pain most people recieve no additional effect once they get above 4 mg. you can see further evidence of this from those who taper down from high levels. They feel absolutely no difference from 16 mg versus 8 or even 4.

I'm positive it's the same for you. Perhaps 4 mg might not hold a small subset of patients and you might possibly somehow be in that group but most certainly it's rare if ever that 8 mg won't be the max that pretty much any human being needs.

I would say just keep your focus on convincing yourself that 4 mg is the most you will ever need - rather than focus on the tiny, minscule possibility you will ever need more.

Congrats on getting to and staying at 16!


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:58 pm 
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Sub Addict.
You wont really know till you drop,get stable, then drop again, get stable and so forth.
Experience tells us, as has Dr Junig and others that physically after awhile that these higher
doses may be taken as more of a mental reaction for the need for more.
The fact is you wont really know till you get down into the single numbers of dosing.
Like i said earlier I jumped down from 16mgs to 8mgs over night and was fine. 8 to 6, samething.
Get stable on 16 as Donh mentioned then in 2 ot 3 weeks see how your doing.Geting stable is the most important thing
for you now.
And thats great you have been reading Dr J s blog, best place to learn..

Keep it going man...

Razor


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 21, 2014 11:04 pm 
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donh wrote:
I'm curious why you are asking this question? Trying to find a reason for "your ceiling" to be at 16 mg or even higher? Just a gut guess there
I would say that's more of a smart ass reply than any "gut guess" in your case donh. Definitely NOT appreciated. I said earlier I was CURIOUS!!! I also mentioned in my very first post that I had tapered down to 2mg and was FINE there. I FULLY realize my dose IS, and has been way too high.

donh wrote:
I would say just keep your focus on convincing yourself that 4 mg is the most you will ever need - rather than focus on the tiny, minscule possibility you will ever need more.
Do you usually judge everyone? I know I don't need more and said so previously.

Razor,

Your response makes good sense....wait until each dose is lower, get stable and see how I feel. I'll do just that and thank you again for the comments.

Sub Addict - slightly pissed


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:26 am 
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Hey Sub :) I will tell u my opinion on the ceiling level. I don't claim to be an expert nor am I a doctor, I also realize that I have been on sub for almost 3 yrs so I'm sure there's more ppl out there with longer experience. That being said I'll give u my opinion. I'm on 12mg, i started out on 16 and have been forced to taper by my Dr to 12 and I'm sure the next forced taper is coming soon unfortunately. I couldn't tell any difference at 16 and now 12. But I will say, on days I try to be adventurous lol and take 8mg, I may not feel bad physically but mentally I don't like it. I get anxious and by the evening I feel worse. Now ppl who wanna judge can say I'm imagining this and I'm still above the ceiling level....I don't care what they say or what they think cause I know how I feel personally. So my opinion is, I think its different for different ppl. I think the lower u eventually go, u will realize urself the lowest dose ur comfortable at. And u have already gotten urself down to 2mg in the past so u kinda have an idea where ur comfort could be. Only u will know what's best for ur personal journey. I think u are doing very well, I have followed ur progress and it seems that u know what ur goal is and don't be afraid to ask questions about anything. If someone makes u feel judged....do what u just did and tell em to stop making u feel judged. Nobody should feel judged for asking a question, ever. Have a wonderful day :)

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