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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2015 11:50 am 
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Hey RGB,

Goodness no u didn't do anything wrong. Sub was only saying that u will get more responses and ppl noticing ur post if u have ur own thread about the topic ur needing help or support with. Mostly ppl notice new threads and with u being a fairly new poster, u starting a thread would give u a chance to tell us about urself and ur history or just simply any questions u have that u need answered. Of course u do not have to start ur own, u certainly aren't doing anything wrong by posting here. I just don't want ya thinking not many ppl are responding to u. So u do what is comfortable for u. I'd like to see ur own thread though so we can know more about ya :)
Regardless you are welcome here and so so glad u found us!!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:46 pm 
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jennjenn wrote:
Hey RGB,

Goodness no u didn't do anything wrong. Sub was only saying that u will get more responses and ppl noticing ur post if u have ur own thread about the topic ur needing help or support with. Mostly ppl notice new threads and with u being a fairly new poster, u starting a thread would give u a chance to tell us about urself and ur history or just simply any questions u have that u need answered. Of course u do not have to start ur own, u certainly aren't doing anything wrong by posting here. I just don't want ya thinking not many ppl are responding to u. So u do what is comfortable for u. I'd like to see ur own thread though so we can know more about ya :)
Regardless you are welcome here and so so glad u found us!!

Thanks.
I will start my own thread and explain things.
It was only when I went in to swap to Sub I caught on I wasnt on my own with the things I was doing.
At the NA meeting I found that plenty of others had the same tastes.
Anyway thanks.
This forum is excellent and Sub has changed my life for the better.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:54 pm 
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Doesn't appear anyone answered your question about refills. To answer, yes. Refills most definitely are allowed as is phoning in the perscription - it does not have to be written like oxy and now Vicodin.

Bup is a Schedule III narcotic. All C-III can have up to 5 refills for up to 6 months from the original script. Any remaining refills expire 6 months from the origional. You also can't refill sooner than 21. Days after the last.

While there are restrictions on prescribing Bup as far as filling those scripts it is no different than any other CIII. My doc sometimes gives me refills on the scripts, sometimes calls them in and sometimes has me pick up the script and make a deposit... in the specimen cup :). I've been with him and stable for five years now but he started this along with 3 month appointments after about 9 months.

As we know, all docs are different but federal law allows refills and i have not heard of a state superceeding that.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:47 pm 
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I can tell you in Oklahoma they will absolutely not fill any refills on the script until the 28th day ...as far as getting refills on a schedule 3 i know they are getting tighter and tighter on any controlled drug at all .. they wont even refill my lunesta until the 28th day and only allow 2 refills on any script..Im not a 100% sure if its just my docs rules or the state though...Let us know what happens on that SA


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:53 pm 
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I think this is a fuzzy topic. I have found that it not only depends on the doctors preference, but the pharmacist as well. For example, several months ago I had a doctor write a prescription for ambien. I believe this is now a CIII drug. The doctor had been writing the prescription for 1/2 to 1 tablet per night, with a quantity of 30. She changed it at that apt to 1/2 tablet per night because of a new guideline stating women should only take 5mg at a time. The quantity was still written for 30 tablets, but the pharmacist would only fill it for 15, since this would be a 30 day supply. The weird part was that they refused to hold the rest of the prescription as a refill and I had to have my doctor call in the remaining 15 pills the next month as a new prescription, which she did with no problem. (in the past I have been told that they were not allowed to phone in a refill for this medication...go figure) The pharmacist claimed that they could no longer have refills on file for that drug because the classification of it had changed. WTF?????

Three months later I went in to the same pharmacy with a prescription from the same doctor showing 5 refills and I haven't had a single issue with it.

I guess my point is, just because they are allowed to doesn't necessarily mean they will. AND, the pharmacist is just as likely to make up some BS lie to keep from filling it if they don't want to as the doctor is.

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:47 pm 
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Q, I have no doubt things like that go on everyday in every city in America. What I provided is simply. Federal law which is the minimum in every state and cannot be lower. From there states can invoke their own law that goes beyond fEderal. Then from there stupid people and idiot corporations can do somewhat what they want until they get a lawsuit or customers stop going there. You may have heard of some pharmacists refusing to fill perscriptions for the "morning after" pill. This example is a company or pharmacist taking the law into their own hands. The same happened with your perscription. The law remains the same at 21 days. Insurance or a pharmacist may set their own rules.

I seem to recall dr j telling patients not to fill at any Walgreens as they have taken it upon themselves to require all sorts of extra hoops in the name of fighting Diversion. Frustrated cops? Morality police? Do your damb job people under FEDERAL LAW not your law. Very frustrating and ad you see, very inconsistent.

Anyhow, you can run into anything. Hell I had one 24 hour pharmacy tell me that the "fill on date" meant 6 am not the 4 am I was there on my way to the airport. Crazy! He made it up and I hope got in trouble. Just another example.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:45 pm 
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Thanks everyone for the comments. Good info Don! Interesting how it all works. I'm so happy I'll be able to get a refill to save me a long drive once in a while.

I absolutely agree that the pharmacists themselves control lots of what happens concerning getting your medication. They make their own rules plenty of times. I know that for a fact.

Check this out: This happened about a year ago. I was completely out of subs. I took my entire script early and could find none to purchase anywhere. My pharmacy is open 24 hours (CVS) and I went in around 2 am to get something to ease my pain. I can't remember what I was after. No one was in the store or at the pharmacy counter. I spoke with the pharmacist on duty (by himself) and told him I was miserable and in withdrawals. I told him my script for Suboxone was in about a week and asked if there was any way he could give me one to get by with. I couldn't believe it when he got a 8mg generic bupe pill, put it in a bottle with no label and said here ya go!!! No questions, no charge, no nothing!!! He would have been fired for that if caught!!!

They can do what they want to do. Most of the time.

BTW: I actually feel terrible about doing that now.

Q, I think in your case the pharmacist should have filled your original script for the 30 pills even though you were taking 1/2 tablet daily. The script would have lasted for 2 months instead of one. To only fill 15 pills was NOT the doctors orders on that script. Oh well.

RGB, Glad you understood I wasn't being mean and just trying to help you get more responses!

Sub Addict - no longer


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:03 pm 
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Short and sweet and to the point.....

My hard work doing my best to take only 4mgs per day didn't last. I'm now up to 16mgs a day and lots more occasionally. Nearly right back where I was. I would throw myself off a bridge but I'd probably live with broken legs and arms while landing on my head. lol. I'm so sick over this I could throw up. Back to the constipation and feeling lousy/sick every single day. I just can't get over this.

Not sure anyone can even help, but I would appreciate someone tring....again. I've even considered hypnotism to cure the problem. Or maybe a surgey to have my brain removed. Lol. Maybe an addiction counselor could help?

If I get in trouble with this new sub doctor I'll be in HUGE trouble and I know that.

My friend will no longer hang onto the subs because I bugged him to death about handing them over. Said he didn't want to get involved any longer which I can understand. I would like to kick my own ass over this.

I don't even know what else to say. Feel like such a loser.

SA


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:55 pm 
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Oh Sub Addict,
Well I just reread the past two pages of your thread. .. You know the drill man. Start dropn it. Asap.You know
now what 4mgs feels like. You understand what the ceiling effect is. You knos you will feel so much better when yoh taper down .
No judgements here my friend, i do feel badly for you. But you Can fix this . You can.

I get the feeling you havnt found face to face support and belp where you are. Find it. Become acountable to some one else. May be you dont have anyone close enough right now, but find a addiction counseling place, hell go to a some meetings . When i started out 4 years ago i hated meetings but found that in early recovery that i had to see shat Recovery world really was. How they did it.I could t just take Suboxone and have success. You daid it yourself that more help was needed. You can find it.
Buprenorphine is a wonderful tool in itself, but cant do all of the work. I hope and pray for ya, and its Big that you have come back here where you do have friends and support. Justs admiting the problem is a step foward.

Medically, and im no dr, take no more than 16mgs. I cant give you a taper plan, but you could drop to 8mgs in a flash too.
I get it that now there is no one to help with holding your meds..That seems to be a huge issue here. Is tbere ANYONE else???
I hope so..

Were all in your corner Sub Addict, may be go back and reread your thread, it could give you power...and please keep posting SUB..


Raz


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 3:51 pm 
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Hello Sub :)

Well, we as addicts make mistakes. Unfortunately that's just what we do and u know what we do every time.....we pick ourselves up & we go bk starting all over again. I totally understand why ur friend doesn't wanna hold ur sub for u anymore, we as addicts can be pretty darn persistent until we get our way lol. I agree with razor, u need to find a meeting or a counselor to hold ya accountable. If there's anyone else to hold em for u then u need to do that again too cause it did help u last time. If there isn't anyone u trust to do it, can u only get a weeks worth at a time from ur pharmacy? I pay cash and I only get two weeks worth then go bk for my next two weeks even though my Dr writes me a months worth. It's just better financially for me that way, but that could work for u too in not having a big stash staring at ya everyday. It'll all be Ok though, tomorrow start with 8mg then go bk down to 4. Ur gonna run short even worse if u don't cut it down asap. I can totally see getting caught up in stress or any overwhelming situation and feeling the need to take more sometimes but finding a meeting or seeing a counselor will help u cope with those feelings so you'll know what not to do.

No judgement here, I'm glad u told us. U know that's the first step and knowing u have this issue will help zip u bk on track again. Try ur best to cut bk down immediately then find someone as quick as possible to hold ur med for u if u can.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:13 pm 
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Hey Dude,

Well, I'm not going to bash you over the head...but you know you have to get this straightened out like yesterday. You need to think about how bad it was when you got dropped from your doctor a couple months ago. Let that thought burn into your brain until you realize how important it is to stay on the straight and narrow. You had a very near miss not long ago, and I don't want to see you wind up there again.

How long do you have until your next appointment? How many days short are you going to run with your meds? I'm sure you have thought about how you are going to make it until the next fill date, so what's the plan?

Let's start there, and we'll see if we can hold you accountable for the next few weeks. I know that you understand all the reasons that taking more isn't necessary. We're not dealing with an absence of understanding. What you need to do now is put your brain back in your head and use it. :D You can overcome this and get back on track, but once you do you are going to have to do something different. You HAVE to find some real support and work it, Dude.

We are here for you SA. I'm not usually the tough love person, but I think that's what you need right now.

Q

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:47 am 
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Well.....

qhorsegal2 wrote:
Well, I'm not going to bash you over the head...

qhorsegal2 wrote:
What you need to do now is put your brain back in your head and use it.

Kinda sounds like you're bashing me over the head. Maybe it IS what I need right now, but not exactly what I really wanted to hear. MAYBE I needed to hear it, but it does hurt to be honest.

I hesitated even admitting what happened. Believe me when I tell you I've already beaten myself up for days now. I hated myself before and hate myself even more now because I WAS doing so well. I have no one to turn to, no one to hold me accountable except this forum.

I've been to NA meetings, but when I called myself "clean" while admitting I was on Suboxone I was ridiculed, called names, and basically asked to come back later when I was REALLY clean. Almost got in a fight with one loud mouth jerk. When I reminded everyone the ONLY requirement for attending was the DESIRE to be clean it only started more arguments, so I left NEVER to return!!! Maybe AA is better?

I have no one to hang onto my subs. Yes, I will run out early from my script, but I have purchased from the usual sources so as not to lose this doctor. I have enough to get me to the next appt. At least I THINK I do. Totally STUPID and RIDICULOUS and I realize it.

I began this morning with the FULL INTENTION of only taking 4mgs TOTAL today. But an hour later I took another 8mg film strip for a total of 12mg....ALREADY!!! I just don't know how to get a grip on this? I truly HATE me right now.

Sorry to let everyone down. Nothing else to say.

SA


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:08 am 
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Hey Sub,
Ok, so your at 12 mgs now...any chance you can stop right there? Suboxone is your doc, I havnt forgotten that.
This is a problem ive not seen very often. From everything you have said,I dont have any answers .
Without help with your suboxone, how can the doses be brought under control? ....I feel for ya, I do...

Ya, that NA gang ran me off after 3 years too, funny thing is if everyone on sub went to NA, there d be more clean enough people there than anyone. .sometimes, it can do more harm than good. Thats My experience. .so..

AA, sure, give it a try, maybe it could help. If you find other addicts there on sub. I bet you will. Any go there instead of NA...

You are very brave to come here and spill your guts. ..
Only thing I can tell you really is to start cutting thoses films down, and never put a whole 8mg film in your mouth..

I could also suggest an in house rehab. .Is that doable?? Money , time??,

Sorry your in this jam..

Keep posting SA.......


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:08 pm 
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Same here Sub, NA had there police hats on when they heard I was on suboxone too. I only recommended em for u cause I still had "hope" that not all of em were like that but guess they are. Too bad an addict can't get help unless u believed exactly like they do. I have zero experience with AA though so not sure if they're the same or not. But if u could just do plain addiction counseling somewhere, I'm sure that'd help u. My clinic offeres meetings for only sub patients. I know ur Dr is far away and this may not be an option for u even if ur Dr did offer something like that. My only thing to think of is counseling of some sort. Hey I know this has gotta be hard, I really do. I have family that has supported me through everything, even watched my kids when I was in my worst part of addiction, so I couldn't imagine not having anyone to go to and I'm sorry that's what may be happening to u. I know u have someone to get the extra from to keep u from falling way short til ur next appt, but have u thought what may happen if that person is out or disappeared?? You'd be up the creek without a paddle. They didn't have any last time when u had to go through the start of withdrawal til u found another Dr. This could easily happen again. Maybe use this fear of that to help motivate u to stop. Like razor said, this is a kinda unique situation for me too because sub is ur doc. Oxy was mine, and there's no way I could've taken it the right way and my fear is that sub is gonna be that way for u. Although sub is better than oxy, lol I'm in no way comparing the two. Counseling with a certified counselor is my main recommendation right now. But I'm gonna keep thinking lol I'm gonna try to find out a better solution for u somehow. Please keep us posted.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:15 pm 
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Sorry to hear about the bad experience with NA.

I believe that fellowships vary from place to place, so this might not mean much where you are, but CA (cocaine anon) is pretty inclusive in Canada, and welcomes any addict with desire to stop their addictive substance or behavior. I know a number of people in the fellowship who remain on prescription opiates, or who are in the process of getting off of them.

AA is far less inclusive here as a rule, though I regularly attend my sponsor's home group, which is drug friendly. I was welcomed here during while I was still on Subs.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:21 pm 
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Hey SA,

I'm sorry if you took what I said as an attack or a bashing. That last comment you quoted was meant to be taken jokingly, not with a mean spirit.

But, I really don't know what else we can say to help you here unless what you are looking for is accountability. Since you have lost that option with your friend, the second best thing would be to have us try to hold you accountable to your dose daily. If that isn't what you are looking for, then I apologize for misunderstanding your request for help.

I definitely don't want to make you feel worse than you already do Sub. I would be happy to help you in any way I can, but I'm at a loss for what else to say.

I just keep thinking about how scared you were when you got dropped from your doctor, and how excited you were to find a new one who was willing to trust you. I don't want to see you jeopardize that relationship.

Q

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:10 pm 
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Hey Q,

I'm sorry and APOLOGIZE to you! My head is so messed up right now I'm taking things the wrong way quite often. I should have known you only want to help or you wouldn't have bothered to post. Sorry Q and I mean that. I absolutely need the tough love at this time, more than ever.

I was feeling lower than low when I read your comment. It hit me wrong at that second and I should have waited to respond. I feel like a total idiot now. Hope you understand. You've been so courteous and suppportive to me and really trying to help me get through this. I hope I didn't scare you off? Lol. I'm truly sorry Q!!!

Accountability is definitely what I need right now. I have none in my personal life currently and was hoping someone here just happened to be in the same situation as I am. I've searched many different places and found no one even close to this problem. That would help.

I have one friend I may consider asking to hold my subs. He has no idea I'm even an addict and probably has no clue what subs are? It may come down to me asking him for help in this matter. I fear losing him as a friend if he finds out my "secret" of being an addict. Tough call on that one. Will take some time and thought before it happens, if it does.

Thanks Johnny for the info. I will check out a AA meeting soon. Appreciate your response.

Thank you too Jenn. You're right, if I lose this sub doctor I'll be screwed big time! I buy extra from the street and if none are available as happened last time that's a big problem too. I know better to put myself in this mess yet I do it anyway. Just doesn't make sense does it????

Thanks Razor for your continued support. You ARE helping and hope you know that. everyone is helping and without you guys I'm not certain where I'd be right now. Probably in the gutter.

I really do thank everyone here for even caring.

SA


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:19 pm 
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Hey SA:

I hope your day is going better. I have been on and off sub for years now.. currently off (but was just on for a short term 2mg/day/skipping weekends for 3 weeks for pain) I am hoping to not have too many w/d symptoms from such a short term, small dose and not every day even.. I would skip several days..

Anways, I tried NA and hated it... I found the same thing. However, I have been in AA for over 3 years now and consider myself sober.. I have about 3 1/2 years.. You will find a lot less judgment regarding ORT. At least were I live.. I just like AA better overall.. Hope you find something that works.. your are def in my thoughts.. I was totally addicted to it and would take more.. that is why I have to be so careful with it.. even in short spurts like I just did.. I found myself wanting more and to take it longer.. that's when I know I have to be done.

Take care and again.. you're in my thoughts!


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 7:29 pm 
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No worries, Dude. I totally get it.

What you said above is exactly what I was trying to get across to you. You have a very good understanding of how suboxone works, but you just can't get your actions to line up with what your head knows to be true. That is addiction! It doesn't make sense, and it's frustrating as hell. The only difference between what you are doing now and what I was doing several years ago is the substance. There comes a point in all of our lives (addicts) when we are powerless to overcome this series of events on our own. That's when most of us turn to suboxone, or 12-steps, or rehab. Unfortunately for you, your DOC is the suboxone. That doesn't make you any worse than those of us who can take it, just different. I wish I had the answers for you, or at least a good suggestion, but I'm drawing a blank on good advice. I'm thinking some good one on one counseling with a real Addiction Specialist is your best bet, but it's really up to you to find what you are comfortable with.

The one thing I know for sure is that you need something besides what you are already doing to make the pieces of the puzzle fall into place for you. In the meantime just keep posting. I promise there is no judgment from me.

As a sidenote - I had a positive experience with AA for awhile. I was advised right away by the group leader not to disclose my suboxone use. But those who knew about it were supportive. I think each group varies quite a bit, so you probably won't know until you try it.

Q

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:51 am 
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A little update today. Still in big trouble I'm sorry to say. Taking a minimum of 16mgs a day and plenty more usually. Several days of taking 32mgs and even one day of taking an unbelieveable 72mgs!!! Absolutely ridiculous. I usually put 3 of the 8mg films under my tongue and repeat that process. I repeated it 3 times yesterday putting 9 of them down!!! STUPID STUPID STUPID!!!

I wasn't going to respond or post any longer, but it's about the only thing that makes me feel good right now. I realize how hard everyone it attempting to help, but I need to help myself too. All of you have been wonderful.

I went ot a couple more NA meetings at different places and they were a repeat of earlier meetings. Left shaking my head in disgust at the judgement I received. I tried an AA meeting and that was more "user-friendly" with more serious about their recovery. I'll go back and see what developes. I also have an sppt with an addiction counselor soon. I'm trying hard guys, I really feel I am.

I sincerely thank everyone for the input.

Sub


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